not sure, but when is someone in toronto going to scope it out? this library has it on cassette…
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Fantastic information; thanks for asking and thanks for sharing! Hopefully at least one of the “Title” demos has vocals.
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I absolutely wholeheartedly concur! we need to get this song. it’s out there and I bet this library doesn’t “own” the song. the director of the movie (who lives in Toronto) gave them the cassette, the band probably don’t even know that’s it’s there…
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anyone know what’s up with a song (or something) called “carnival” that they worked on during the green sessions? it pops up a few times on the r.e.m. timeline.
I have a few Green-era demos but can’t think of one called Carnival.
From what I gather “Carnival” is a fully realised song which was written relatively late during the Green sessions. I read about it in 2 REM books, one of them was Tony Fletcher’s, don’t remember the other one. Peter’s talking about it in one of the books saying that they tried to wrote some songs in different styles and genres and Carnival was a samba song that eventually was cut off for being too out of context or something…
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And it’s pretty strange and outrageous that we’ve never heard it…
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r.e.m. timeline dude says “carnival” was actually a working title for the untitled song on green. so that’s one mystery less, at least.
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Well, according to Tony Fletcher + An interview with the guitarist of the band AFTER Green was released - he’s wrong…
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Further than that - even the Timeline itself list them as two separate songs - R.E.M. Timeline - 1987/88 Concert Chronology
and for what it’s worth Carnival is listed as an outtake here as well Green (R.E.M. album) - Wikipedia
That Wikipedia entry for Green actually states that “Untitled” or “The Eleventh Untitled Song” “was recorded under the working title of “Carnival” and even after the songs were mixed, still had the “Carnival” working title as late as 6 September 1988 before the band decided it wasn’t to have a name on final release.” Not that Wikipedia is the final word on anything, LOL . . . . But Chris from the R.E.M. Timeline has heard a lot of the session tapes in the vaults so I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. That being said, it’s weird that the Timeline information for the recording sessions appears to indicate that “Carnival” and the “Untitled” song on Green are two separate songs. The mystery continues, I guess . . .
The mystery continues indeed. I found the quote about Carnival from Tony Fletcher’s book “Perfect Circle” -
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Hi ya - Chris here from The R.E.M. Timeline - yeas ‘Carnival’ IS ‘The Eleventh Untitled Song’ - I updated wikipedia after someone said to me about this thread & thought I’d better set the record straight. Don’t look at the current Timeline entries as in the next massive update, it will all be changed to reflect this - we haven’t done an update for a while as we are very busy, but we are uptodate right up to now in the background). When I went through the masters in the archives - right from the John Keane demos in April 1988 - it was named as ‘Carnival’ - we listened to a rough mix of the album from Ardent Studios when they completed the 1st session there and it was named ‘Carnival’ as well - that particular version ended up as the b-side version. As noted there was a comp mix done after the album was completed and was still called ‘Carnival’, before it was changed to ‘The Eleventh Untitled Song’. Tony Fletcher was incorrect - note it’s not a samba, but the song they are referring to is ‘Great Big’, which had a working title as ‘Samba’.
It will all be clear once the next update is released. Strangely ‘Stand’'s 1st working title was ‘Led Zep’ (??)
Chris
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Interesting! For years I assumed that carnival is indeed the 11 untitled song cause of the demo that sounds like a carnival… Than all this contradicted info came along, and at the end it turns out that the initial hunch was right 
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And for those completists - regarding the circulating Green demos - here are the proper names from the master tapes:
Original circulating copy names: taken from original circulating info text as example:
01 Pop Hit 89 (Pop Song 89)…(3:07)
02 Orange Crush…(3:59)
03 Get Up (instrumental)…(2:46)
04 I Remember California…(5:01)
05 Title (instrumental)…(4:02)
06 (The Eleventh Untitled Song) (instrumental)…(2:34)
07 Hairshirt (instrumental)…(2:34)
08 The Last R.E.M. Song (Instrumental)…(3:25)
09 Stand (slower) (CUT)…(2:58)
10 You Are The Everything…(3:45)
11 The Wrong Child (instrumental)…(2:37)
12 Larry Graham (instrumental)…(5:37)
13 Great Big (instrumental)…(4:32)
14 Get Up (Vocal)…(2:44) (this is from Ardent Studios, Memphis, TN, not Bearsville)
Actual song names at time of recording at John Keanes in April 1988 from master tapes/tracksheets:
1 Pop Song 89
2 Orange Crush
3 Dumb Head (later renamed ‘Get Up’ at Ardent Studios in Memphis)
4 California
5 Title
6 Carnival (later renamed ‘The Eleventh Untitled Song’ after completion of album)
7 Untitled (later renamed ‘Hairshirt’ at Ardent)
8 #3 (later renamed ‘The Last R.E.M. Song’ at Ardent)
9 Led Zep (later renamed ‘Stand’ at Ardent)
10 Everything
11 Untitled (later renamed ‘Mozart’ at Ardent, then changed to ‘The Wrong Child’ at Bearsville.
12 Larry Graham
13 Samba (later renamed ‘Great Big’ at Ardent)
‘The Last R.E.M. Song’, ‘Larry Graham’ & ‘Great Big’ were all recorded during the recording sessions at Ardent Studios in Memphis, TN - all as instrumentals, but only ‘Larry Graham’ was worked on at Bearsville. ‘Title’ wasn’t recorded at either Ardent or Bearsville. ‘Larry Graham’ was looked at as a Near Wild Heaven b-side but not chosen.
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