I posted this to Facebook yesterday and people seemed to like it. It’s got 325 likes or loves so far. I know many here don’t take part there, so why not bring it here too?
This is an appreciation post for the great musician Bill Berry is and was for R.E.M., not because we love him, but because he rightfully deserves so.
Bill was a freaking secret weapon, and the band lost a lot more than a drummer when he retired. People usually count on the band’s drummer to, well, shut up, just drum along to the song, and go home. Bill brought in creative thoughts and brand new music (hits, even!), came up with very creative and distinctive drum lines for each and every song, and not the usual doo-dah-doo-dah, with a great use of the hi-hat (“Harborcoat” is a fantastic example) and the toms, and served as a serious editor/producer for all songs, with his own strong voice and view, having a great knack for knowing what should be there on each song and for how long. Not happy with all that, he did backing vocals no one was expecting the drummer to do as well!
On the flip-side of the coin, in an R.E.M. group I belong to on FB someone recently posted about Bill’s diminishing contributions to the band after a certain point and essentially tried to make the case that he was an inadequate drummer.
Not trying to be argumentative but I’ve never understood what a “real” or a “true” fan is supposed to be. This person stated their case well and cited examples. I don’t feel the same way but I don’t think it makes them any less of a fan for feeling the way they do.
Bill has always floored me I remember Bill Reiflin saying how incredibly FAST the old stuff was. I’m still very amazed and I LOVE Bill Berry. Underrated
I’m a guitarist so the finer details of drumming passes me by but my Dad was and he was always fascinated by Bill Berry’s drumming. Thought he was technically strong and really unique. He used to make me replay tracks (particularly IRS stuff) in the car so he could try and work out in his head what he was doing. My dad played in blues/rock bands in the 60s/70s and didn’t have a kit anymore at this stage, but if he did I think he’d be definitely trying to learn to play along. He was genuinely fascinated.
Just a bit of an anecdote but highlights how Bill was pretty unique in the rock pantheon and uniqueness definitely adds to a bands sound. Thats just his drumming before you bring his songwriting and harmonies into the mix.
The proof of Bill Berry’s invaluable contribution to R.E.M. is the inconsitancy of the music the band made during their fourteen years without him. R.E.M.'s music was so good for so long when Bill Berry was a member that it would appear as though he was either the group’s most talented member or that the symbiotic relationship between the four men was essential to their artistic output.
I completely agree that Bill Berry was amazing, and a vital cog in the R.E.M. machine. But I find the dismissal of post-Berry R.E.M. a little lazy.
It’s all a matter of opinion, but Up is my favourite album. And I probably like Reveal better than any of the IRS albums. (I can almost hear the cries of “sacrilege!”)
I’ve said elsewhere, context is important when evaluating music. I was 4 when Murmur came out. I discovered it at about 13/14. Loved it then, love it now. But the later albums mean more to me because they were my ‘time’.
Up was released during the first kinda ‘setback’ that I had as adult. It helped me through it, and it means a lot to me. Around the Sun was my ‘college’ album.
It’s hard for me and, I’d suggest, for anyone, to definitively assess the R.E.M. catalogue. Music is so entwined in personal circumstances.
Context.
First love. Heartbreak. Grief. Joy. Carefree youth. Nostalgic adulthood.
To suggest that there was a huge dip after Bill Berry left is a little unfair in my opinion. But each to their own!
I totally say “to each their own” when it comes to “Berry vs Berry-less”, just like with “IRS vs Warner”. The band changed along the years, that’s a fact. But I myself think they changed often anyway, if not from album to album, as some could argue. Who would say the same band who released Fables would do Out of Time? Or from Automatic to Hi-Fi? Or, god, from Monster to Up?
Yes, they became the three-legged dog when Bill left, and Up is a very different animal from whatever came before, but it’s right there in my top5 R.E.M. albums. See:
1- New Adventures in Hi-Fi *****
2- Murmur *****
3- Monster ****1/2
4- Automatic ****1/2
5- Up ****
6- Reckoning ****
(Chronic Town ****)
7- Reveal ***1/2
8- Green ***1/2
9- Lifes Rich Pageant ***1/2
10- Document ***1/2
(Dead Letter Office ***1/2)
11- Fables ***1/2
12- Out of Time ***1/2
13- Accelerate ***
14- Around the Sun **
15- Collapse Into Now 1/2
And I say all that because I completely agree that music is entwined in personal circumstances. So I wouldn’t call that conclusion lazy, because some people can truly find some radical-for-the-worst change there that I don’t see.
I deliberately used the word “inconsistency” in describing R.E.M.’s post-Bill work because I think it neither dismisses the merits of those five albums, nor denies the reality that there were several ups and downs during those years. For what it’s worth, I personally enjoy a lot of the post-Bill work and am grateful to have it.
My statement was more a provocation in response to this idea that Bill Berry was merely a simple guy around for the ride. This is a cliché you often hear about drummers—most famously Ringo, but also many others. In R.E.M.’s case you have as clear evidence as you’ll ever find that the drummer was essential in the making of great music.
Now that I think about it a bit more carefully, I guess I can concede that there were more downs after Bill left, as in, if I had to refer to “this” and “that” particular low point within songs and quantify them. And I would conclude that 1) they lost a lot when he left, like I said in my OP, so that increase of lows is likely due to Bill’s absence, and 2) the lows went lower.
In another thread here about Up, I said if Bill were still in the band, Up would probably have been a lot better than it already is – and I love that album, but it could have used some editing. That’s the difference he made early on. On AtS and CiN, maybe we can’t even speculate, I guess, but I can fantasize the lows wouldn’t have gone THAT low because there would be another voice there, one that would usually cut the crap.
You can tell I’m a huge Bill fan and I can’t even play drums.
For what it’s worth, Bill was involved in the demo sessions of Up. I believe they had already completed two demo sessions (Hawaii and Georgia) before he informed the band of his desire to retire.
Which ever side of the fence you fall, REM with Bill and REM without Bill are two very different beasts.
For me, REM were a classic example of a band that were more than the sum of their parts. That’s not to say those parts individually didn’t hold great value, they obviously did - three great, intuitive musicians and a charismatic poet/singer. But when those parts came together they made something intangibly great. It’s something that’s missing from a lot of modern band’s on-the-grid productions, but REM had an unmistakable pulse.
So when Bill left I felt that equilibrium was toppled. Not completely; value - sometimes great value - definitely remained. But there was no longer the same four way dynamic intrinsic to the songs.
I think he brought three things that helped establish the original REM “brand”:
Most obviously, his drumming. I’m not a drummer so lack the adequate technical verbiage to describe his playing, but it was a huge part of their sound. Not because it was demonstrative or flashy but because it always served the song perfectly. The stoical shuffle on Ebow and WTFK, the ominous toms on Feeling Gravity’s Pull, I Remember California and I Don’t Sleep I Dream, the urgent hi hats on Harborcoat, etc etc. he always seemed to know when to push and when to lean back and his economic playing was always about serving the greater whole. There was a real human groove there which was crucial to making a song sound “REM”
Secondly, his writing. Sure, he wasn’t a poet or a top line writer, but the numerous ideas he brought forward in writing sessions turned into some of their greatest and most well known songs. He seemed to have a knack for coming up with a little riff or sequence that inspired the others into some of their own best contributions.
Thirdly - and this is much more conjecture based - I feel he exhibited a no nonsense approach to the art form of record making which kept the occasional more indulgent impulse in check. I feel like it can’t be a coincidence that after he left their arrangements became cluttered with competing ideas and visions, bereft of one of their key editorial eyes (though concede the loss of Scott Litt would have had as much to do with this as Bill’s departure).
I continued to love and support REM after Bill left, but I sure did miss him
It’s your third point that I think is the most obvious contribution from Bill. Glaringly obvious in fact. There’s so much excess post Bill. Songs/Albums that are too long. Music that’s “busy” with too much going on. Like a beautiful house with too much many furnishings and garish wallpaper.
As an aside, I (probably controversialy) think the songwriting juices had run dry by Accelerate. Both musically and lyrically, i thought they hit REM by numbers territory on that album. What papers over the cracks is the refocus on the basics. Song lengths, production, tempo, direction, sequencing - “Bill stuff”. It’s all much better than the previous three albums, even if in my opinion, the songs aren’t.
I’d mentioned this on the Up reissue thread, but I’d love that album to be handed to Bill for a remix like Litt with Monster. Record drums if necessary. We know he contributed in at least a small way to it’s inception. Sure, the volume of drum machines and loops came about primarily due to him leaving, but I think much of the core direction of the Album would have been the same with Bill.
At the very least, I’d love an interview where he details his thoughts on what he would’ve changed. He maintained at the time that he thought it was their best album. In reality, i think he said it with a wink.
I love Up dearly and genuinely believe that with a bit of tickering, it would stand shoulder to shoulder with their best of the 90s. I just find the contribution of Bill to it, the most fascinating “What if?” of the bands career.
Yes, I think the general direction had been decided as a four piece. There would’ve definitely been more percussion though than what we ended up with. I recall an interview with Peter saying a lot of experimentation came about because they didn’t know what they were doing without him. The sampled rustling of an M&M packet for example (can’t remember what track that was on).
I do think Bill tended to keep them grounded. That said, one of his last songs is also their longest and could have been better if condensed (Leave).
Regarding their later albums, which I agree lack the same quality of songs, I personally find a Bill-related demo (Harlan County with Whistling; I suspect it’s Bill’s whistle melody) to be superior to the three-piece album track (Final Straw).
All very well said, and that’s exactly my wishful thinking towards Up. It would involve a lot more work than all parts (and us) are expected to have, but it would be extremely welcome.
