That’s wildly off the mark. I’m seeing many young people excited to discover the band, but they wont be talking about it here. There’s plenty that crop up say on r/rem.
An interesting observation from young people getting into the band is that most of them seem to see them as this edgy, old indie band. It’s like the 90s commercial “biggest band in the world” behemoth era and the kind of irrelevant rock royalty era of their latter days has been erased from history a bit. Kinda cool really, think the band would be happy with that. We all go back to where we belong.
In terms of the tshirts, Nirvana and Ramones are basically alt fashion brands nowadays, a bit like Che Guevara’s face. There are reasons for it too that are nothing about the music. The Ramones will always be fashion icons with their look still copied today. Nirvana will always be immortalised through kurt, grunge fashion is getting hip again and they represent a live fast, die young ideal that always appeals to edgy kids.
REM don’t have any of that. It’s really just the music, performances, videos and artwork that remain. The story of REM is cool for a fan, important in the history of alternative music but is basically just “four kinda quirky, decent guys form a band, accidentally become the biggest band in the world then all retire as friends”. They will never have the same imprint on popular culture as say Nirvana, Motley Crew or the Doors. People want drugs, sex, death and high profile toxic relationships not an aneurysm (he got better) and a fricking yoghurt throwing court case .
Speaking of Nirvana, this is from this year’s Zozobra, a 98 year New Mexico tradition where you write your gloom down and then they burn it in a big man/monster:
Sorry but I disagree. I think that R.E.M. have a real problem with today’s youth. I couldn’t care less for Nirvana, Guns n Roses, but I do see the younger generations embracing those bands, be it because of Kurt Cobain’s legacy, for whatever reasons, the point being that those are acts are more relevant while R.E.M.'s fandom has long stagnated.
I’m afraid that when the last of the generation Xer dies, so will the memory of R.E.M. will be gone. I don’t want to make comparisons (those hardly ever help) but you do see many great bands from the 60s, at the time they were innovative and their sound broke new ground, influenced 1980s or 1990s bands, but who remembers them today, who plays their records apart from a small group of irreductibles? That’s why I think that the symbolism of t-shirts is important, in my opinion. I want that in 2050 people still seek out CD or vinyl copies of R.E.M’s albums in much the same way as in 2022 they adopt albums (and symbols) from other R.E.M. contemporary bands.
I think that there’s a real problem (not sufficient awareness of the band, in my opinion) and that those issues should be sincerely debated without being complacent.
I think there is some truth in this. There’s an excellent YouTube channel called 20/20 sound that made this point in one of his videos. For some reason REM’s influence has not sustained relative to their size at alt rock’s peak, whereas the likes of Nirvana, Pixies, Pearl Jam are continuing to be revered by new generations, completely eclipsing REM in any contemporary digital discourse.
My theory has a lot to do with Gen Z’s relationship with art and media. They skim their infinite sea of content initially, then deep dive only if and when they are sufficiently hooked by something.
I believe this model of music consumption does not suit REM’s catalogue for two reasons.
Firstly, it means they might only hear the giant hits as they binge through Spotify which are not necessarily representative of what our generation holds so dear about the band.
Secondly, REM’s musical charms are unique in their subtleness. I remember buying Fables as a teen getting into them around ‘91 and found it under whelming upon the first couple of listens. But because I invested in an actual record I stuck it out and replayed it. It quickly became my favourite and remains to this day. It’s magic took time and a little enjoyable effort to reveal itself to me. But there’s a generation who are never experiencing music on these terms anymore. It’s quick consumption, and the rich, fertile tapestry of REM’s discography is somewhat incongruous to such an impatient young appetite.
Not shitting on a younger generation, there is much about them I admire. But the framework of modern music consumption has forced them into these habits.
I hope that one day musical appreciation will rediscover it’s patience in western culture and then REM might finally be rediscovered by a new generation
You’re always welcome to have an opinion but I wasn’t offering one for debate. I was laying out some objective facts.
R.E.M. will never be Nirvana. They didn’t affect popular culture in the same way. Kurt was and always will be immortalised as a pop culture icon alongside Jim Morrison for example.
As an aside, I was at a Guns and Roses gig ealier in the year and the audience were predominately middle aged regardless of whether young people are wearing their tshirts as part of their look. I will stake my life, house and everything I hold dear on young people catagorically not idolising a bloated, middle aged Axel Rose and listening to Chinese Democracy
I think sometimes it’s easy to be clouded by how much you/we adore REM (the fact we’re on here, we’re all obviously massive fans).
What happened to REM in the early 90s was unnatural for what the band were. They became the biggest band in the world by accident, not design. They release two back to back “Fleetwood Mac - Rumours” level albums that had such broad appeal, they were in pretty much everyone’s parents record collections, never mind the core fans. Monster sold but ended up in bargain bins across the world. By New Adventures, a lot of the OOT/Automatic fairweather fans had been turned away. “Biggest band in the world” was an unusual moment and only really lasted a few years. What they were if you look at their career as a whole, was probably the pinnacle alternative/indie band, not a career mainstream behemoth like say U2. I think where they are now is reflective of that.
The Pixies and Pearl Jam are catagorically not as big as REM now or ever. The Pixies get a fraction of REM’s streaming plays and are jobbing round smallish venues and festivals playing the hits as Black Francis’s pension. I saw them the other year and they were great, but doesn’t change my harsh opinion. Due to members leaving, they’re barely the Pixies anyway. Pearl Jam get less streams than REM even though they’re still releasing music and headlining huge gigs. If more people are listening to REM compared to those bands when they’re essentially invisible, i don’t think there’s much to worry about.
One final note, REM’s monthly streams alway used to sit around the 12m mark. They’re currently averaging 14.5m monthly listeners. It might not feel like it, but they are gaining new listeners and thats without them having some sort of “running up that hill” moment thats put their music back in the public eye.
Speaking of which, won’t the final Stranger Things series be set in 1987? As we’ve already seen a Murmur poster as part of the set dressing, sales boosting iconic One I Love/End of the World scene incoming!
Sure. I’m not a fan of Pixies 2.0 at all and have never liked Pearl Jam beyond the first couple of records. I’m talking about young people exploring older records from the ‘90s, as opposed to engaging with contemporary pantomimes of these once great bands. I was more making the point that due to their early records many of these bands have remained in the discourse, but REM significantly less so. With the young people I have talked to it is the original records of those bands they are heading to in their exploration of early alt rock. Not many of them are going to REM though. You mention REM and a lot of them are like “what the Everybody Hurts band? No thanks”. There are obviously many exceptions but that is the trend I have observed in the UK. Results may vary in other territories. But here, where REM were once hip kings of integrity they are now regarded (wrongly) by many young people as a lame boomer band
Sure, but that’s anecdotal evidence from your tiny sample. I’m also from the UK and have had the exact opposite experience as I stated above.
One or neither of us could be right but moving away from the anecdotal to the actual, REM’s audience on the digital platforms that you mention is very strong and has grown by approx 2m monthly listener’s. They are eclipsing every band used as an example against them except Nirvana (way more iconic) and G&R (commercial rock behemoth).
The other thing to note is that rock music in general has seen its biggest slump in popularity with young people in my lifetime, probably ever. It will come back one day, I’m sure but I used to work with 14-19 year olds and you’ll just have to believe when I say a large majority of them wouldn’t go near listening to rock bands.
In short, all I’m saying is that although it may not feel like it to you, everything to do with REM’s legacy is way more than fine. You just need to be realistic about what that legacy is.
I’m not trying to shit on younger people either but when I see them wearing Nirvana, Ramones, Zeppelin, etc. t-shirts I’m gathering it’s because their Mom (or some other family member) purchased those shirts for them at the local department store and that in all likelihood, the young people wearing them have no idea who the artists are. I know there’s exceptions but I would imagine they’re rare.
I mentioned this in another thread but a while back, some magazine/website such as Magnet had this series where some current artist would record a cover from an artist from the past. In one of those, a young female artist (who’s name escapes me but they weren’t well known) recorded an R.E.M. song (I forget the title). In the write up that accompanied the cover, they said they’d never heard of the song or R.E.M. before. However, upon doing some research they learned they had heard of R.E.M. before, they just didn’t realize it was them. All that said, I agree that, for whatever reason, R.E.M. doesn’t seem to be remembered as well as some other artists.
People are free to wear band tees even if it’s just because they look cool. I used to have awesome X-Ray Spex and Roxy Music ones, neither of which i listen to.
A few years back, I started seeing middle-schoolers wearing band tees with artists who died long before those children were born. It started with the iconic dead rockers - Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Cobain - and bands like
Led Zeppelin and the Who, and then expanded. The vast majority of kids I asked weren’t at all familiar with the music; they just liked the aesthetic.
I do agree that R.E.M.’s contemporary stature with younger listeners is not what it should be, or to put it another way, not what I would have expected it to be, but, as we saw with Jimi Hendrix and so many other icons, dying young like Kurt Cobain and leaving a small, nearly perfect legacy before Nirvana had a chance to make their own disappointing late career album like Around the Sun does score cool points with the kids. If Michael Stipe had died after Automatic for the People, would R.E.M.’s “legacy” be greater today? Probably so, for the same reason that there is a cult around doomed, tortured, gone-too-soon Kurt Cobain. And if Monster and Around the Sun and all the post-Bill Berry albums had never happened, R.E.M.’s achievement would probably look better in hindsight, and, crucially, be easier for new listeners to digest. 15 studio albums is a lot.
But of course I prefer that Michael Stipe and all of the rest of the guys in R.E.M. lived and kept working and made more records, even if there were ups and downs along the way, as is inevitable for them, the Stones, or any other band who outlasts that original magical first flash of inspiration.
I do agree with the observation above that R.E.M. are always one “Running Up That Hill” moment from one of their songs getting licensed to the right TV show or movie to spark a revival of interest in them. Sooner or later, something like that will happen for R.E.M., I’m pretty sure. I do know that I have turned several younger indie rock-loving friends on to Reckoning and other early R.E.M. records, and they love them. Somebody who likes Alvvays or Soccer Mommy or whoever the hot indie artist du jour may be is probably also going to like early R.E.M. … if they’re exposed to it. Again, I wouldn’t be surprised if a song like “Driver 8” or “So. Central Rain” has a viral moment due to some sort of movie licensing or cover version from a young band or whatever it is that might spark a revival of interest in R.E.M. Maybe someone will make a dumb Tik Tok video of people dancing to “Can’t Get There From Here.” You never know. But their body of work is too big and too consistently good to be ignored by “the kids today” forever.
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I was in mourning for the Queen. 