530 replies to this topic

[madloop]

So I took a two-hour train ride last night and decided to fire up some R.E.M. on the iPod. It's really the first time I've listened to the band in a very long time, probably the longest stretch I've gone without listening to them since I became a psychotic fan back in '94.

Anyway, it reminded me how much I love their work and how much it has meant to me, but it also reminded me that, mainly because of how much I've loved them, they've disappointed me more than any other band. (They've also surpassed my expectations and have delighted me more than any other band, so it definitely goes with the territory). In my head, I started making a chronological list of my biggest R.E.M. disappointments (post-Monster, of course, when I became a true feak) and I thought I'd share it - I'd also like to hear yours.

***

1. Undertow, from New Adventures in Hi-Fi: Don't get me wrong, I love the song. In fact, I loved it too much. During the Monster tour, it became my favorite new R.E.M. song and I wore down my bootleg copy of the Milton-Keynes (sp?) show I taped off the radio. A song about breathing water, with such emotional singing from Stipe. I saw it as a first single on their next album, with a water-themed cover, perhaps Wake Up Bomb as the second single. Another rocker, like Monster, but not as dark. It was going to be fantastic in the studio.

But of course that never happened. All we got was the same live version we'd been hearing all along. NAIHF is a great collection of songs, but is more a road document than a studio album. I have come to appreciate that as being its charm, but at the time, I wanted more. To this day, I wonder what a studio take of some of those songs would have sounded like (and not just a hastily-thrown together track during a break between shows or recorded in a bathroom somewhere like we got).

But you can't always get what you want!

2. All The Way To Reno (You're Gonna Be A Star), from Reveal: Up was fantastic, IMHO, and stands as one of my favorite albums of all time, by any band. No disappointments there.

Although NAIHF wasn't exactly what I wanted at the time, Reveal was the first album that really got me down about the band.

When I listen to it now, I am back in Prague and the nostalgia of the album colors my view of it. Imitation of Life (great song, possibly even better video) was the song of that summer for me, a big hit while I lived in Prague and another of my all-time favorite songs. When Reveal came out, I hadn't heard any of it, being a Non-Revealing Revealer and all. But I liked it for a long time and found everything I could to like about it, even though it was (again, IMO) clearly inferior to everything the band had done before.

The best example on Reveal of REM's steep decline is Reno. It was a huge hit in Prague - tram operators would turn the volume up on the radio when it came on. I actually have fond memories of that. Hearing the song really makes me happy.

But the song is embarrassing. Lazy MOR music, corny lyrics, not the edgy, thoughtful, poignant REM I had come to love.

The way I see it is this: I bought copies of Up for everyone on Christmas '98. I wanted everyone to hear it. It pissed me off that it was being ignored on MTV.

With Reveal, I enjoyed the hell out of it as an REM fan, but I hoped to God no one else was listening. REM had become a guilty pleasure.

3. The Ascent of Man/Electron Blue/Leaving New York/Around the Sun, from Around the Sun: I have alternatively ripped and applauded this album on the board, but I'm an REM fan and I'm biased.

ATS is when REM went from a guilty pleasure to an embarassment. I like some of the songs, I really do, but the bad ones - oh boy. "I'm a lamb without a rack", "leaving was never my proud", "who am I? i'm just a guy", and the last two solid minutes of the title track are unmitigated disasters. I've posted about this a million times (the cringe-inducing lyrics, the atrocious production, the awful videos) and have been flamed to death about it, so I'll stop now since it's certainly redundant.

***

Anyway, all great artists have disappointed. Neil Young in the 80s, Bob Dylan in the late-80s, early 90s come to mind. Both of them recovered, making albums like Harvest Moon and Time Out of Mind that stand with their very best. Will REM do the same? I've invested too much not to go along for the ride.

[CollectingVinyl]

Firstly, I can't say I agree with all of your own dissapointments but I can relate with a lot of them.
I don't agree about NAIHF. I love the gritty 'live' edge it has throughout and if anything, I want more of that. In no way would I be dissapointed if REM were to come out with a new album of songs recored live.In fact, I'd welcome it openly. New Adventures is in probably my second favourite REM album and I didnt find any aspect of it dissapointing including how Undertow sounded on the record(thats my opinion anyway.)
Secondly, I agree about All The Way To Reno. I do like Reveal itself(even though it's nowhere near the older stuff), however All The Way To Reno is one of the worst songs the guys have ever written IMO. The very line 'You know what you are... Youre gonna be a star' makes my skin crawl. And don't even start me on the video! An embaressment.
Finally, with ATS, the first time I heard it I loved it. I realise now the only reason I felt that way when I first heard it is because I desperately wanted myself to love it. Looking at it now, I really only like 3, maybe 4(at a push) songs on the album. Leaving New York, Final Straw, The Outsiders. The rest really don't make a huge impression on me at all and infact, a lot really do sound a bit too similar for me.

Personally, my own dissapointments are pretty much the same...

1.) The songs released as singles on New Adventures. Failing to release The Wake Up Bomb and Leave from album was really never giving it a chance to succeed.
2.) Airportman-The fact that this song is the first song(for many) to hear from the band without Bill is really dissapointing. I just hope people didnt turn off during that song without giving the rest of the album a chance.
3.) All The Way To Reno. (Should have released Lifting or She Just Wants To Be)
4.) ATS-Even though the tour was brilliant, the album is nowhere near the bands earlier stuff.

To have only 4 real dissapointments from the band after 25 years of music isn't really bad at all. It's just that they've all happened for me in the last 10 years... thats the sad thing.

[elvia]

Only one - "I'm Gonna DJ" :(

[Numb]

Hairshirt, The Wrong Child and King of Birds are all horrible songs, but nothing is more hideous than the rotting mass of shit that is  Camera. Makes me shudder everytime I hear it...

Other than those songs, I don't really have any problems with R.E.M. and I even like ATS.

[Narrator]

Numb said:

Hairshirt, The Wrong Child and King of Birds are all horrible songs

OK, im not overly found of hairshirt, but the Wrong child is a fantastic song.

King of the Birds, is prob. one of REMs most understated songs...

I cant believe you would say this!!!!  Please reconsider!!!!!! Please!

n
xox

[Tuatara Taupo]

This may sound a bit perplexing or contradictory, but I am sometimes the most critical of my favorite songs--that is, "constructively" critical.

Typically, I will listen to my favorite songs countless times, such that I think of ways that I would suggest improving them even more. That kind of critique isn't negative...or a disappointment.

I'm particularly like that with R.E.M. and O.A.R. (On a Revolution) songs, since those are my two top groups. In fact, I wonder how it would sound if one group performed the other group's music in their respective styles.

O.A.R., for example, often blends raggae and rock, and the group includes a saxophonist. O.A.R.'s band is known for its tight sound.

I can only dream what it would be to hear them "OAR-ise" R.E.M. music using their modern vibrant energy and youthfulness. It would be like a "Makeover"--perhaps an Extreme Makeover--for R.E.M. classics.

My fantasy is to have O.A.R. do the openings for upcoming R.E.M. concerts--hopefully at least in California. (O.A.R. is better known in East Coast and Mid-West college areas.) O.A.R. has done the openings for some Dave Matthews Band concerts, but I haven't a clue who or what Dave Matthews is.

[Narrator]

I must add...

KING OF COMEDY is the biggest disapointment for me!

I HATE this song..i would leave if REM played it at a gig i was at.

ANY other song.........can we banish this song to the dark side?

Please say yes!!!!!!

n

[kohoutekdriver8]

"Reveal" (except for IOL), "Bang and Blame" (UGH!) and the poor quality of their shows in the mid-1980s.  The latter was probably catalyzed by alcohol and/or drugs, and these guys, I'm sure, dodged a collective bullet in that department.

[Driver Nate]

The first shows I saw by R.E.M. were in the mid-80s (Pagentry and the Work Tour). To the best of my recollection there was nothing there at all to be disappointed with. In fact, I thought they were in prime form then. I thought they were much more out of whack by the time of the Monster tour, this was evidenced by Bill Berry's departure in the years to follow. After Bill returned to the band following his medical leave things seemed off-kilter in ways I can't exactly pinpoint but it was very evident when I saw them on the Monster Tour. They didn't outright suck or anything but it seemed like every song had to be played to 11 just the way Monster itself sounded and I found that off putting. Also, a lot of the passion and mystery that were once such a huge part of the shows was now beginning to disappear. This continued up until the last tour when the mystery was totally absent.

I love "Hairshirt" and "King of Birds", I have never really gotten into "The Wrong Child".

My biggest disappointment would be the very noticable downhill slide the band has taken since Bill Berry's departure.

[the sidewinder]

I agree with collectingvynyl about airportman and Not releasing Wake up bomb and Leave as a single.  But the biggest disappointment is realising Ebow the letter as a first single from hi-fi (aldo it is my second fave REM song, it was a really bad choice for a single, especially first single)

Also a big disappointment is Nightswimming. That's the most overrated REM song, and thank God they didn't play it when i saw REM (They played it the night after), because if they did, I'd probably run out!!

[Maybelline Eyes]

Circus Envy from Monster.
Beachball from Reveal.
A good deal of ATS, mostly the title track same as you Matty.
The Wrong Child does make me cringe, but King Of Birds and Camera are both favourites.

I dislike over sentimental syrupy stuff and r.e.m were going too far down that road for my liking. I have faith that they'll win me back with something great next time though. Those aren't really many disappointments over such a long time.

[rosie]

I'll Take The Rain.

sue

[MizMills]

For me it's not really the songs but they do need to pull out some of the older rare gems. I loved when they did on tour Wolves Lower and Life And How To Live It. Most of the songs on Reveal and ATS are such a disapointmentand should not be played.
And I know this will being out the tar and chicken feathers but why in God's name does Michael have to smear his face with that black goop? I don't mind a lil bit of glam shadow but that paint stuff has to go.Wish they allow Millsy to sing more. And less celebrity name tossing from Michael. :rolleyes:

[Driver Nate]

I love "Life and How To Live It" but it became such a staple on their last tour that it lost it's lustre as a surprise.

I have to disagree about playing the newer songs live, if anything that's what helps breathe some life into them. I may not care as much for the last few albums as I do the rest of the catalog but I'd never wish they weren't part of the setlist. There's no quicker way of them being accused of becoming a nostalgia act (which, according to some reports from the last couple of tours, they already are).

Jonathan

[Churchill]

The only real negative I can find about the band and their long list of merits, is the lack of variation on their latest record. Everything else is mostly peachy.

It seems that the songs/albums people hate the most, I like the best. "Reveal" is my second favorite album and "All The Way To Reno (You're Gonna Be A Star) is among my top five favorite R.E.M. song (at least I can say that Peter Buck agrees with me :p)

I might add that my actual biggest disappointment was when my brother got hooked on trance, dance and whatnot and started to hate everything else called music. After that, he always comes running in my room, yelling at me to decrease the volume on my stereo, because the songs are "dreadful". So there you have it; my biggest dissappointment is that I have to play my R.E.M.-songs (and other songs for that matter) at very low volume. A bit of-topic I know. If he would turn to the "light side" of music, I would be happy as a clam.

[rosie]

Driver Nate said:

I have to disagree about playing the newer songs live...I'd never wish they weren't part of the setlist. There's no quicker way of them being accused of becoming a nostalgia act (which, according some reports from the last couple of tours, they already are).

Jonathan

yup.  i'm with you all the way there, Jonathan.  if they're not going to play songs from the latest record, what's the point?  i also reckon for the next tour (whenever that might be) they should be brave and lose a couple of the standard crowd-pleasers (The One I Love, Orange Crush, Everybody Hurts).  With a back catalogue like theirs, nobody would notice the difference.

sue

[Quetzal]

Shiny Happy  People.
It wasn't actually my  first disappointment (the first one were some songs from Reveal) but the more I get to know about the band's history the more I realize this song should've never happened. Hard to believe after listening to their previous -and smart- records. I don't mean  the whole Out of Time is bad,  but it's evident that the band was uder pressure to make something more commercial, of course they are not the only ones.

[haggis]

Driver Nate said:

The first shows I saw by R.E.M. were in the mid-80s (Pagentry and the Work Tour). To the best of my recollection there was nothing there at all to be disappointed with. In fact, I thought they were in prime form then. I thought they were much more out of whack by the time of the Monster tour, this was evidenced by Bill Berry's departure in the years to follow. After Bill returned to the band following his medical leave things seemed off-kilter in ways I can't exactly pinpoint but it was very evident when I saw them on the Monster Tour. They didn't outright suck or anything but it seemed like every song had to be played to 11 just the way Monster itself sounded and I found that off putting. Also, a lot of the passion and mystery that were once such a huge part of the shows was now beginning to disappear. This continued up until the last tour when the mystery was totally absent.

I love "Hairshirt" and "King of Birds", I have never really gotten into "The Wrong Child".

My biggest disappointment would be the very noticable downhill slide the band has taken since Bill Berry's departure.

Agree with most of what you say here.  I agree they have lost the mystery completely now but I think they still had a bit of mystique about them up until even NAIHF, for example, ebow video.  It was completely lost following the video for Reno.

Other disappointments - pretty much all of ATS and Reveal (except IOL).  And as mentioned the fact that Mills doesn't get the chance to sing as much - wish Michael and Mike would sing together like they used to.

Love Hairshirt and The Wrong Child!

[Driver Nate]

haggis said:

I agree they have lost the mystery completely now but I think they still had a bit of mystique about them up until even NAIHF, for example, ebow video.  It was completely lost following the video for Reno.

I think the biggest juxtaposition is watching Tourfilm followed by Perfect Square. I think they're both very good documents of R.E.M. in concert but what's really noticable about Perfect Square is what's missing: Stipe's rambling pre-song anecdotes and songs, the lighting, the film editing, etc. I know bands must evolve or die but the mystique began to get slowly stripped away to the point where it is totally nonexistant these days and I miss it. I also miss the rear screen projections and obscure cover songs. With each subsequent new R.E.M. release I've began to lose hope that they'll ever redeem themselves with something worthy of their catalog again. I certainly hope the new one is the record that does it.

Jonathan

[Low Feedback]

Narrator said:

OK, im not overly found of hairshirt, but the Wrong child is a fantastic song.

Nope, is the opposite. Hairshirt is a strong song, very beautiful lyrics and it suits Green very good. Specially Michael's "image" at the time.

I agree with you on King Of Birds though.