17 replies to this topic

[lizish]

RED DAWN:  overwrought, b-movie dreck.

Can't believe that is has some kind of cultural value, let alone a projected zeitgeist; but hey, it kinda does.

Quote

Iraq's Red Dawn
Monday 17 January 2005 @ 11:34
Back in the 1980s, a film came out that was a masterpiece of Cold War
propaganda. The film 'Red Dawn' depicted an invasion of the United
States by a combined Soviet/Cuban force that came up through Central
America and down from Alaska.

'Red Dawn' centered around the patriotic struggle of a bunch of kids
from a small Colorado town, who armed themselves and took to the hills
to fight the invaders. They were afraid and angry, and over the course
of the movie most of them are killed. Each of the fallen is treated as
a hero, their names etched upon a rock that eventually becomes a
national monument once the war ends.

The chief antagonist, a Cuban officer, is disgusted with himself and
the invasion by the conclusion of the film. In one dramatic scene, he
has Patrick Swayze and his brother Charlie Sheen dead bang in the
sights of his AK-47. Rather than gun them down, the officer lets them
go, drops his weapon, and rubs his hands as if they have been dirtied
by all the spilled blood.

I was young enough that this movie had a pretty profound effect on me.
In short, it scared the hell out of me and got me all jacked up at the
idea of defending my country against an invasion by commie Huns. This
film came out, of course, during the Reagan administration, a time of
heavy tension, a time when Ron himself told me that my generation
would be the one to face the apocalypse.

Now, of course, I am old enough to see the thing for what it was. But
I am casting it now in a new context that throws the whole premise
into a cocked hat. These Soviet/Cuban commie invaders kept the lights
on, kept the stores open, and saw themselves bringing 'freedom' to a
nation held in thrall by capitalist oppressors. Why, then, did those
kids fight?

In other words, this film glorifies armed resistance by patriotic
fighters bent on repelling invaders. Yet in Iraq today, the kids
playing the role of the resistance are vilified as terrorists and
thugs. Are they not doing what those all-American kids did, to great
applause, in 'Red Dawn'? We're the 'liberators' this time around,
trying to get the lights on, trying to hold some sort of election. Why
do they fight us?

They fight, I think, because home is home, and because invading armies
are never, ever welcome. All the neo-cons in the Bush administration
who thought this wwas going to be a 'cakewalk' should have probably
watched 'Red Dawn' before undertaking this farce.

--
-Fred

But then again, it's might just be a bad war movie with C. Thomas Howell.

[JohnnyJLawless]

I saw a late night movie with C Thomas Howell in it recently. He seems to have aged weirdly. Red Dawn was a movie I thought was cool as a kid, watched it recently and the plot is ludicrous and very Milius. Also funny because Jennifer Grey and Patrick have to act in it together (as they'd later do in that film with the dirty and the dancing) and by all accounts they hated each other from the get go. Plus any film with Charlie Sheen in it is automatically at least watchable. He raises the bar, its like having Owen Wilson or a chimp in a movie.

[Mary]

It's an interesting thought, that's for sure...wish I could say more, but the only time I ever saw Red Dawn was about three years ago on a cold winter's eve when I was drinking whiskey for the first time...   :o  So, uh, I don't remember much of it, other than making fun of Patrick Swayze a lot.  ;)  But this guy does make an interesting point.

Mary

[inspectorjason]

When I first saw Red Dawn at the age of twelve, I thought that it was a great movie.    I saw it more recently and realized that it was not quite as monumental as I remembered.

Still, the scene with the helicopter gunships is pretty nifty.    This is when the Soviets "accidentally" drop a box of food and supplies onto the road in the desert and, when the kids go out to retrieve the box, three huge helicopter gunships appear out of nowhere and pick a few of the kids off.    The helicopter gunships were Soviet MIL's; I know this because, after I saw Red Dawn, I went to library to find out what kind of helicopters they were.    Those things were really cool...still are, I suppose.

The only thing about Red Dawn that still resounds is the idea of having to suddenly escape out into the wilderness in the event of an invasion.     There's just something appealing about that.   Sometimes, when I'm incredibly bored doing office work, I think, "Wouldn't it be cool if we were invaded now and I had to get in my car and go up to the mountains to survive?"    I'd never have to worry about office meetings, jammed computer printers, or any of that ever again.    What can I say?    I'm strange, sometimes.

[crestfallen]

Obviously he is missing a major point in connecting the Iraq war and 'Red Dawn'.
Were Americans... democratic Americans. Those were dirty Commies in 'Red Dawn'! Dirty, dirty red commies!!!!

[Jesse Motorboy]

JohnnyJLawless said:

... He raises the bar, its like having Owen Wilson or a chimp in a movie.

Owen Wilson is the Cary Grant of our generation. :p

[JohnnyJLawless]

Jesse Motorboy said:

Owen Wilson is the Cary Grant of our generation. :p

But with gorgeous eyes, and a monumentally fucked up nose.:)

[Jesse Motorboy]

JohnnyJLawless said:

But with gorgeous eyes, and a monumentally fucked up nose.:)

True that homes. True that.

Back to the matter at hand, where I do not like the actions taken by the Bush administration (yes... for like the ten billionth time... I know it's too late to bitch about it :rolleyes: I just like to. :)  ) I do not see a link here. I've never seen an Iraqi with Patrick Swayzee's acting ability*.






*I'm presuming they would act better than Patrick.

:p Kid I kid.

[ThirstyThursday]

lizish said:

RED DAWN:  overwrought, b-movie dreck.

Can't believe that is has some kind of cultural value, let alone a projected zeitgeist; but hey, it kinda does.

But then again, it's might just be a bad war movie with C. Thomas Howell.

Red Dawn was not just some "bad war b movie". It was Government Sponsored Propaganda straight from the Reagan Adminsitration. They even helped finance the piece of poop, which shows another reason why Hollywood is much safer left in the hands of liberals.

Of course, the Reagan Administration was also in bed with Saddam. Go figure.

[Jesse Motorboy]

ThirstyThursday said:

Red Dawn was not just some "bad war b movie". It was Government Sponsored Propaganda straight from the Reagan Adminsitration. They even helped finance the piece of poop, which shows another reason why Hollywood is much safer left in the hands of liberals.

I disagree. Neither political party should make movies.

[ThirstyThursday]

Jesse Motorboy said:

I disagree. Neither political party should make movies.

I was being facetious. The idea that Hollywood is some bastion of out-of-touch liberalism constantly at war with middle Merkin values is one of the high holy axioms of modern right-wing "thought". Which, of course, must mean that studios are trying to undermine the Judeo-Christian firmament of this nation by neglecting, 99% of the time, to produce films with originality and creativity, in lieu of giving us Emilio Estevez in "Mighty Ducks Nine".

[Jesse Motorboy]

ThirstyThursday said:

I was being facetious.

So was I. ;)  

Quote

Which, of course, must mean that studios are trying to undermine the Judeo-Christian firmament of this nation by neglecting, 99% of the time, to produce films with originality and creativity, in lieu of giving us Emilio Estevez in "Mighty Ducks Nine".

Damn! I still haven't seen the third one.

"Slap Shot" was the better hockey movie though.

[ThirstyThursday]

Jesse Motorboy said:

"Slap Shot" was the better hockey movie though.

That goes without saying. But you notice they made a suck-ass sequel to that one, too.

[Jesse Motorboy]

ThirstyThursday said:

That goes without saying. But you notice they made a suck-ass sequel to that one, too.

I refuse to acknowledge it... on principle alone.

[inspectorjason]

I've had a great time revisiting Red Dawn this week, as I stumbled upon the new DVD release in a store last week and picked it up out of nostalgic intent.  The movie certainly doesn't pack the same punch that it did when I was thirteen years old and seeing it for the first time, but it's fun in the way that such heavy-handed 80's films still are.

The up-to-date interviews with the grown-up cast are fun and everyone recalls how controversial this movie was back in the day.  I didn't realize that this movie had freaked out so many people around the country back then and I also didn't realize that the director established a somewhat unfavorable reputation for himself in Hollywood, much of which was the same epitome of limousined liberalism back then as it is today.  I've never really thought of Red Dawn as a propaganda film, as it's difficult to even take the movie that seriously these days now that I watch it with an adult mindset.   I've always simply thought of it as a fun movie about having to abandon life as you know it and survive as a refuge while defeating an enemy.   The same appeal as many of the zombie movies have.   When I saw Red Dawn as a kid, I used to always wish that Russians would invade for real so that I could go hide out in the woods and then emerge at random times to launch counterattacks on them.  

While Red Dawn this week, I noted that several Russian/Cuban characters in the movie bring up their own past histories as fighting for insurgencies and the topic of the Russian/Afghanistan conflict of the 80's is mentioned in passing.  There is also a tip of the hat to the mountains in the film being a refuge for a Native American uprising many many years before.   All of this seems to enforce the notion that Red Dawn has an appeal for insurgents of all nationalities and motivations.  More than anything, though, it's best viewed today as any other action film would be back then.   Rambo: First Blood Part II and Commando certainly invited almost as much controversy, but neither can really be taken seriously these days.

It's a shame that Jennifer Grey had the plastic surgery on her nose a few years ago.   She still looks nice today, but she's lost some of her uniqueness.

[jstecker22]

The only real significance for me in watching Red Dawn so many years ago was finding out what, exactly, a wolverine is.

This was, of course, before I read comic books. :p  

(P.S. Nice to see you back around these parts Thursday ;) )

[DericksHam]

never watched it. but this does remind me of a bruce lee movie where he beated up japanese and warned them that the chinese are not the sick men of asia. i remember reading an interview with a black comic artist who said american japanese were quite shocked with that movie, because they originally thought of bruce lee as the cultural hero of the coloured people. they never knew what their ancestors did to us.

and i remember many hong kong (modern and period) movies didn't potray whities in a good light. what about red china?