91 replies to this topic

[October]

mrdavesanchez said:

What is a musician? Just three chords and a cloud of dust? What about artists such as John Wesley Harding, Bob Dylan, Billy Bragg? These artists are very much motivated about the times and write lyrics about specific political and or social issues.

REM has written very politically motivated songs in the past. Ignoreland and Revolution are very specific in their complaints as we know who Stipe is singing about as the Antagonist.  Other songs have touched on issues but not as direct. And while they are great musicians their politics does play into their music. REMs relavance in the world today is based upon their social/politcal beliefs.

Music and Politics are interrelated. Art is a representation on society and what we listen to is based on our own attractions to not only the music but the lyrics.

Would we listen to lyrics or music concerning ideas or thoughts that were against our own?

If REM wrote a song that supported the death penalty for instance how would that make you feel?

Very, very disappointed and just fooled.

I agree with you entirely.

[mrdavesanchez]

REMFMFAN said:

Good point. If The Mills started a gun magazine with his girlfriend dressed in undies and a bra while faking sex with a rifle, I'd be disturbed to say the least.  :rolleyes:

Well i guess thats what I was getting at. What if Revolution and Ignoreland were not about Conservatives but Liberals?

[RBowden]

shawna said:

I would still enjoy their music. I did enjoy their music very much, like October said, before i knew much of anything about their politics. The fact that i also agree with how they seem to feel about things politically adds even more additional respect for them to that, but i think pretty much i would still enjoy their music either way. It's just great music to me.

Pretty much the same for me, but if they didn't care about the environment, about corporate responsibility (eg selling non-sweatshop t shirts) and were opposed to things like a woman's right to choose an abortion and homosexuality (not much chance of that one I know!) then I would have a much harder time liking them as people. It definitely adds to the whole "package" so to speak, to know the band share a lot of my beliefs.

[NotToBe Reached]

I would still listen to them if the were right wing, obviously, since I am a Republican.  It amazes me how so many people say they wouldnt still listen if the band were conservatives.  Stipe himself has said that lyrics dont have to mean anything, his voice most of the time is just like another instrument in a song.  Thats how I have always approached his political lyrics, as an additional sound...I dont bother with the content.

ken

[Sam]

Talk about close minded.  Wow.  I don't what I've been longer - a conservative or an REM fan.  Their politics do not change my opinion of their music.  I'm surprised the lefties are so strident on this issue.  

Now, to be fair, "right-wing" musicians blow.  Brooks & Dunn?  No thanks.

[October]

NotToBe Reached said:

I would still listen to them if the were right wing, obviously, since I am a Republican.  It amazes me how so many people say they wouldnt still listen if the band were conservatives.  Stipe himself has said that lyrics dont have to mean anything, his voice most of the time is just like another instrument in a song.  Thats how I have always approached his political lyrics, as an additional sound...I dont bother with the content.

ken

Did Stipe say so? Well, he was talking bullshit, then.. I don't think he meant that, writing Final Straw lyrics, just to name a song.

[mrdavesanchez]

October said:

Did Stipe say so? Well, he was talking bullshit, then.. I don't think he meant that, writing Final Straw lyrics, just to name a song.

That's very true. I guess Final Straw had to be out there for some other reason rather than political. :)

Or in a more general sense. . .the inclusion of lyrics in the album covers. . .

[October]

Sam said:

Talk about close minded.  Wow.  I don't what I've been longer - a conservative or an REM fan.  Their politics do not change my opinion of their music.  I'm surprised the lefties are so strident on this issue.  

Now, to be fair, "right-wing" musicians blow.  Brooks & Dunn?  No thanks.

The issue is to be a fan or not, and not about good or bad music. Fans are supporters, too, they make the success of a band, the give them money and make them famous a publicy relevant. That way they can influence lots of people with their beliefs.

I can't support that way someone whose ideals I don't share.

[October]

mrdavesanchez said:

That's very true. I guess Final Straw had to be out there for some other reason rather than political. :)

Or in a more general sense. . .the inclusion of lyrics in the album covers. . .

Right! He should put the chords of the songs instead, seen his voice is merely another instrument.. ;)

[mrdavesanchez]

Sam said:

Talk about close minded.  Wow.  I don't what I've been longer - a conservative or an REM fan.  Their politics do not change my opinion of their music.  I'm surprised the lefties are so strident on this issue.  

Now, to be fair, "right-wing" musicians blow.  Brooks & Dunn?  No thanks.

Well I am not sure how I can dance around to songs supporting white corporate america, gay bashing songs,  or Toby Keith for instance. I surely wouldn't want to "Sell Out" my ideals and beliefs for a band or an artist.

How can you be a fan of a band like Midnight Oil for instance and not be a fan of their politics?

[BlueCordFFA]

If people get their panties in a twist about musicians/artists and their politics then you all throw away your Kerouac; unless of course raving anti-semites don't bother you too much.

However, to completely contradict myself, the politics of a musician/artist/author could influence my patronage of them.  And yes, I have read all of Kerouac.

[mrdavesanchez]

REMFMFAN said:

True. But I would think Midnight Oil is a bit different than R.E.M. in that R.E.M. really hasn't had political content in their music as content since 'Automatic for the People'. I really enjoy Midnight Oil, but almost all their songs contain political content. 'Around the Sun' will be the first record of theirs since 1993 to actually make a political statment against the current administration.

To be fair to REM. . .

As far as not coming out with a political song since 1993. . . Automatic was the last album written while a republican was in office. Around the Sun is the first album written since Bush has been in office. There was 8 years of a Democrat in office which I believe prevented from the band/michael to be feeling too political on the albums. While you might disagree with Reveal, that album was pretty much done before Clinton left . . . at least lyrically.

So there has been very little to speak about politically for REM for about 8 years.

Politically this band is very active and in my opinion if we had Gore in the White House, I have a feeling would be a lot different than what it is.

[Lois]

BlueCordFFA said:

If people get their panties in a twist about musicians/artists and their politics then you all throw away your Kerouac; unless of course raving anti-semites don't bother you too much.

However, to completely contradict myself, the politics of a musician/artist/author could influence my patronage of them.  And yes, I have read all of Kerouac.

It's being stuck between a rock and a hard face!  I raved about and craved to read quentin Tarrantino's screenplays, until I picked up his autobiography and read on the first page that he was a self-confessed racist.

Never bought, watched, paid to watch another thing since.    His screenplays are in the back of the bookcase, I can hardly bare to think about the fact I put money in his pocket!

However, it hasn't stopped me 'eating up' some of the things he's done or had an influence on, just because I can't help it.  For instance Scoobie Snacks by Fun Lovin' Criminals just wouldn't be as great without the sound bites.

to some extent, I suppose you give credit where credit's due and bear the rest in mind?  Until that position becomes completely untenable?

[Kelly A]

Sam said:

Talk about close minded.  Wow.  [...] I'm surprised the lefties are so strident on this issue.  

I guess I'm not a lefty then. Although I am left handed..

[wedestroymyths]

this is a hard call.  i typically don't let politics get in the way of my enjoyment of something because I feel that everybody has the right to their own beliefes and we should be able to accept each other and our art or what not despite differing ideologies.  That being said, the biggest reason, i feel, that REM have been so accesible to me is there ideology.  I think I would still like their music, but I would not love them nearly as much because they never would have touched me the way that a liberal band touched a liberal kid growing up in one of the most conservative areas in Ohio (well, it doesn't hold a torch to cincy, but you know).  So i'd like them, just not in the same way, and they wouldn't hold the same importance to me.

[black rainbow]

i would have a hard time supporting them if they were right wing. but as a few people already said in this thread, their music would probably be different. if the suddenly changed their political views i would still enjoy the old albums. but as for going to concerts and stuff like that i'd have to think twice.

[laura z]

i'm surprised people are thinking that comparing an actor and their beliefs to a musician and their beliefs is an adiquate comparison.  an actor doesn't bring their beliefs into the role they are playing in a film.  seldom do you see their political beliefs in their actual work, rather in their personal life.

and i'm curious what some of you think music ought to be for...me, i primarily think music is a mode of expression:  feelings, thoughts, beliefs.  rem have said time and again that they write about their world around them.  if their world were changed so dramatically, i can't fathom how different their music would be.  now, if you just want music for entertainment, then sure, i suppose you can ignore the lyrics or the meaning of the song.  i know michael said before that his vocals were an instrument, but that was primarily on the earlier songs.  once he started pronouncing lyrics more clearly, he also clearly took a step in a political direction with life's rich pageant and document.  it's not even that subtle.

entertainers entertain (dance, show, glitter)...musicians/artists use music to express.  it's all in where you categorize rem.