199 replies to this topic

[beatadrum]

Ingoreland when 'Howler Monkey' was just a lyric. It is scanned in on the DVDA of AFTP. I might transcribe it one day! Therefore, the lyric for Ignoreland for AFTP DVDA is nothing compared to the 'real' one!

[Remming]

Ok what's Bad Day about now? ...a bad day? hmmm...
and what's with the video? I can't ever catch it on TV, and my media player is horrid quality.

[Hyena8]

Quote

Originally posted by Remming
Ok what's Bad Day about now? ...a bad day? hmmm...
and what's with the video? I can't ever catch it on TV, and my media player is horrid quality.

Maybe you can download a better player? I am sure someone can tell you how. I post my computer questions on the computer forum of the board. Good luck!

[MIKEY]

Didnt have any IRS albums but have recently aquired Eponymous.

So. Central Rain has jumped out at me and is palyed non stop at the moment.  I love the Bom Bom Bom bass line and micheals voice on this recording.  I can understand the first verse and of course the Sorry bit the rest well who knows!!

I think its one of there best songs even though i dont understand the words

Any else agree or can fill in some words!

mikey

[Remming]

I agree. I really love this song because it's so poetic and the harmony/melody works so well together. very nice for early stuff.

Did you never call? I waited for your call
These rivers of suggestion are driving me away
The trees will bend the cities wash away
The city on the river there is a girl without a dream

I'm sorry

Eastern to Mountain third party call the lines are down
The wise man built his words upon the rocks
But I'm not bound to follow suit
The trees will bend the conversation's dimmed
Go build yourself another home, this choice isn't mine

Did you never call? I waited for your call
These rivers of suggestion are driving me away
The ocean sang, the conversation's dimmed
Go build yourself another dream, this choice isn't mine

[imrkelly]

awaysaway said:

Good work! I'm not totally convinced by "did shiver/survive", though... I can hear a 'b' sound in there somewhere. :confused:

I definitely hear that b, too...

[beholder22]

Pls help me with "Saturn return". There was some posts 'bout it but it's insufficient for me
to undestand. Especially some lines/words (I've marked them with red)...

      easy to poke yourself square in the eye
      harder to like yourself, harder to try
      these elvis poses, postcards and neopryn
      roses [pl noun or verb?] a dollar a stem
      everyone’s sleeping or pulling a long haul,
      the keys in the cooler, it's 3 a.m.

      and Saturn is beckoning no one
      is off on its own
      is offering up

      late shift convenience store
      cut out the lights
      telescope roof towards the
      northwestern sky
      you pull the ladder
      no one's the wiser
      you find your sights and discover

      that Saturn is orbiting nothing
      is off on its own
      is breaking from home

      harder to look yourself square in the eye
      easy to take off

      you found the ladder in the pattern of your wrist
      you’ve seen and you’ve marked horizons
      mother was difficult, she made you cry
      cover the mirror, look to the sky
      you climbed into your rocketship triumph
      lift up and hold out your hands

      Saturn is orbiting nothing
      is off on its own
      is breaking from home

      Saturn is orbiting nothing
      is off on its own
      is breaking from home

      Saturn return when you chase down its moons
      throw them into a new gravity

      harder to look yourself square in the eye
      easy to poke yourself, easy as pie
      easy to take off, harder to fly
      harder to wake Galileo

[joy hernandez]

beholder22 said:

Pls help me with "Saturn return". There was some posts 'bout it but it's insufficient for me
to undestand. Especially some lines/words (I've marked them with red)...

      easy to poke yourself square in the eye
      harder to like yourself, harder to try
      these elvis poses, postcards and neopryn
      roses [pl noun or verb?] a dollar a stem
      everyone’s sleeping or pulling a long haul,
      the keys in the cooler, it's 3 a.m.

      and Saturn is beckoning no one
      is off on its own
      is offering up
      you found the ladder in the pattern of your wrist
      you’ve seen and you’ve marked horizons
    

I hope I'm not repeating what was stated back beyond. I used to post in this thread but haven't in like 4 years.  
The Elvis poses...well I'd have to say it has to do with Presley.  Maybe making a remark about the performing industry...likening his job as a singer to that of Elvis, that you just get up there and put on an act, and that's really all it is. (like the Elvis, especially in later years, that was seen on stage wasn't the Elvis at home, you know? He was waaay more messed up than he wanted to lead on to be). Not that I'm saying Stipe's messed up. But that his stage self is seperate from his home self, an impression that I've gotten over the years. It just kinda reminded me of when Stipe does his Elvis thing on stage during Man on the Moon.
I ran Neopryn through dictionary.com and that word didn't exist there, but Neoprene did, so maybe they didnt know how to spell it? *shrugs* anyway here is the definition of neoprene:
1)A synthetic rubber produced by polymerization of chloroprene and used in weather-resistant products, adhesives, shoe soles, sportswear, paints, and rocket fuels.
2)a synthetic rubber that is resistant to oils and aging; used in waterproof products

So I'm thinking, going on the lines of what "saturn returns" means (as stated I think in this thread years back) that its an astrological term for ...well..it takes saturn 21 years to orbit the sun. So where Saturn was when you were born, it will be back there when you're 21, 42, 63..etc. Those times, Saturn is supposed to effect your life. I think it kinda makes sense (about as much as all the rest of astrological stuff does anyway). At 21 we now have people going through a "quarter life crisis" (I've observed a few, to my dismay..or those guys may have just been natural assholes to start), 42 is about midlife crisis, 63 is close to retirement: another big life change.
So the neoprene might be that, since it doesn't age, like how we are as a culture trying to cheat death, fight aging.  The part about it being in rocketfuel in that definition, maybe having to do with flying to Saturn? Or maybe something like a bag to put the roses and the postcard in so they don't get wet? (or, he just liked the word). I'm coming up with that one on the fly since I didn't know what it was til just now, when I looked it up.

The Roses a dollar a stem part, well, you ever seen vendor selling them at concerts or on the street? Or sometimes florists sell them that way at flower shops. Maybe he's walking past stuff on the street, just saw it and put it in? Or someone gave him a rose, and that phrase from a sign is stuck in his head as he sees it?...just kinda pondering...

keys in the cooler: ummm he got home from someplace, like camping or whatever, and he's carrying all this stuff in but the keys are in the cooler, so he can't get in.
or.: he put the keys in the cooler as a hiding place on his porch.
or: its key'S  in the cooler, like its in there, the answer is in the cooler...(me speculating) what's in the cooler? beer. answer to your mid/quarter/retirement crisis? don't sweat it so much, have a beer and relax.

Saturn beckoning: well, its just kinda out there. past jupiter.  doing its own thing. at the time, sans cassini, we really hadn't gone out there to it nasa-style. so its just kinda there. beckoning no one.  or a comment on how we pin that term "Saturn returns' on it, astrologically, like pinning blame, but all its doing is being out there spinning, and in, well, normal (non astrological terms) it really has little out right effect on us.

the ladder part: i always just thought of that as the double helix. the genetic code.  maybe a scientific note: specially after the following line. (you've seen and you've marked horizons) we've unlocked genetic code, done some scientifically astounding things, and kinda have shrugged off astrology in favor of science (whereas astrology and other such things now that we observe as hooey was once the serious science of the time)

i just kinda thought that the whole thing remarks as this: that we get bogged down in the blah, mundane parts of life (the pictures painted by the convience store, or everyone working so much) that we need to escape sometimes, that this person likes to dream of the stars as escape. that all the crap that we have here, this person just wants to fly to saturn and escape it all. that most of these phrases are just kinda painting the word picture to flesh it out.
that's just my impression tho. hey. *shrugs* hope it helped.

[Cereal Boy]

beholder22 said:

these elvis poses

Look at the preceding line for assistance. It is a reference to Elvis Presley. During the latter part of his career, it became apparent (something that loved ones were aware of, for some time), that he was not fullfilled and he turned to other coping devices. He still maintained his public profile yet yearned to walk a different path. It is about pretending to be what you are not.

beholder22 said:

neopryn

neopryn? (neoprene)-roses (plastic roses)= meaningless gesture

beholder22 said:

the keys in the cooler

I always thought it was a Southern expression. A metaphor for a static existence?

beholder22 said:

no one is off on its own is offering up

Saturn takes 20 odd years (I believe it is closer to 30) to rotate around the sun. A consistency in life. Saturn returns to where it began, a sense of totality. If Saturn failed to rotate, then what? (the supposed ramifications of which are innumerable considering the astrological parallells between human life and Saturn)

This is not my field of expertise so it would be wise to delve deeper yourself.

beholder22 said:

you found the ladder in the pattern of your wrist

One of my favourite passages from any R.E.M song. I'll let you work this one out. Notice how the next line is reflective. I'll give you this; ladder=exit point.

[beholder22]

Thanx, the things now getting clearer and... the vanishing point appears:)

[Matthew31]

About Saturn Return:

Keys in the cooler

In an interview i read with Michael he said it related to the "florida keys", the group of islands he visited.

Is offering up, its up on its own and you have seen the pattern in the ladder of your wrist
I read a review of Reveal once. The journalist who wrote this review came up with the following idea about Saturn Return: the song talks about 'freeing' yourselve from your past. In the case of this song: finding your own 'path' after dealing with a difficult mother (who made you cry), suicide attempts (the pattern in the ladder of your wrist meaning: scarves in your wrist as a result of trying to cut it, also hence the sentence: easy to poke yourselve, easy as pie) and finding new ways to look at life ("cover the mirror, look to the sky")

The character in the song can be seen as "saturn": he's finding its own orbit, and does not longer circle around the sun (his family life), he is "of on his own", not longer following the laws of physics ("harder to wake Galileo").

To mee this explanation sounds very possible. It seems like Michael has used astrological and astronomical elements to tell a story of personal growth.

To me it sounds the "narrator" of this song, contemplates about this process while he is staying at one of the Florida Keys. Maybe a hint this song is autobiographical?

[Matthew31]

While writing about Saturn Return i cant help thinking about "Parakeet".

On this song he seems to use the same kind of detached / scientific words to tell a very "personal" story. Combined with the "cold electronics" of the music, those lyrics gives the song a really unsettling atmosphere that happens to crawl under my skin.

I sometimes read on the forum that people are not that positive about the lyrics on Up, and especially Reveal. They find them to shallow or just not that good. But in my opinion the sometimes detached or "shallow" sounding words Michael uses on many of these songs, combined with the dramatic stories (about falling, standing up, personal growth, freedom) "burried" underneath those, offer a often splendid combination that somehow "works" (for me, that is).

[beholder22]

Matthew31 said:

that somehow "works" (for me, that is).

for me too (especially for a scientist who I am)

Your interpretation is very attractive. I like it.
What attract me for UP & Reveal is Michael lyrics. It's not a simple songs it's a little stories about man and his personal situation, challenge: sad professor, hope, airportman, daysleeper, the apologyst, saturn return, the lifting, she just wants to be - of that kind

I think it's that for what you like it as I.

[KennedyWagon]

*deleted by user*

[KennedyWagon]

*deleted by user*

[Sweden]

KennedyWagon said:

Who did Michael know that committed suicide at age 27?
Guesses?

Too easy. K.C.
Next question.
Thank you for playing.

[KennedyWagon]

*deleted by user*

[beatadrum]

beatadrum said:

(now that I'm back from Move... :) ) Jumping back to harborcoat!

the line that bugs me after a further session of listening seems to be two things: (first word is either 'then' or 'and')

1st time:

"And we did shiver except the menace got out."

2nd time:

"And we did survive except the meance got out."

the way it's sang ('di-hid' then the next word being slurred 'di-hidsh-ver' and 'di-hidsurvaa') makes decyphering harder but live versions help slightly!

I think I've finally got this darned line, years on from my original post thanks to the recording from last week. What the song has got to do with Lillian Hellman I've no idea, but the line is:

"When we ditched the books with the middles cut out, she gathered the corners..."

It's quite hard to make out on Reckoning because Michael hiccups his way through the entire line but I've checked on live versions either side of it (13th July 83, 30th Sept 83 and a few from 1985 as well as the July 4th 2007 recording where it is as clear as day).

[Binky1138]

beatadrum said:

I think I've finally got this darned line, years on from my original post thanks to the recording from last week. What the song has got to do with Lillian Hellman I've no idea, but the line is:

"When we ditched the books with the middles cut out, she gathered the corners..."

It's quite hard to make out on Reckoning because Michael hiccups his way through the entire line but I've checked on live versions either side of it (13th July 83, 30th Sept 83 and a few from 1985 as well as the July 4th 2007 recording where it is as clear as day).

I think you're absolutely right.  Harborcoat has always been one of my favorite songs and I never got this line.  I always just "hiccuped" my way through it as well  :p.  It's kind of amazing to figure this out after 15 years of listening to this song.  

The other one that was interesting to hear from these recent shows was the "Peter, Mike, and Bill are the book this season" line from Second Guessing.  I never heard that before in all these years of listening to Reckoning...but there it is.  Goddamn I love this band.  :D

[beatadrum]

Binky1138 said:

I think you're absolutely right.  Harborcoat has always been one of my favorite songs and I never got this line.  I always just "hiccuped" my way through it as well  :p.  It's kind of amazing to figure this out after 15 years of listening to this song.  

The other one that was interesting to hear from these recent shows was the "Peter, Mike, and Bill are the book this season" line from Second Guessing.  I never heard that before in all these years of listening to Reckoning...but there it is.  Goddamn I love this band.  :D

The Second Guessing line was something I had picked up on before - but only from the Rockpalast live version that I managed to pick up a VHS boot of in the 1990s. What he sang in 1985 on Rockpalast was "Peter, Mike, Bill, Michael - book this season" - pointing to each in turn, including himself. I think that's the actual line on Reckoning. Another live variation from 1983 was "Peter is the look this season".