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It's no secret (or it shouldn't be!) that Clive and I send endless emails back and forth talking about REM issues. Recently Clive sent me a topic that was so interesting, I thougth I'd share his discussion and my reply with the board so you could all chime in if you wish. He writes...
I was driving to work thinking about people's reaction when they hear R.E.M. mentioned and thought I'd share it...
Basically, at work, we have a music system that is essentially like a jukebox, recently the studio manager has been going round asking what albums people would like played and it goes on to a playlist so, through the course of the day, your album will be played amongst everyone else's choices. This week I've been refraining from choosing R.E.M. because everyone knows I'm obsessed and I didn't want to appear predictable. Today, as it's Friday, I thought I'd treat myself and I nominated 'Accelerate' for my choice. But it got me thinking about how I interpret other peoples reactions to R.E.M. When I was thinking of which album it occurred to me that I'd be almost embarrassed to have 'Around The Sun' or maybe 'Up' played. What does that say about R.E.M.s music? I read on a blog somewhere not long ago someone describing R.E.M. as having become "a guilty pleasure" and that sums it up perfectly. The other week on night shift I added 'Ascent Of Man' to the playlist because I really love that song but when it came on I thought "God this is slow and tedious". It's amazing how my perception of the songs change when in the presence of others.
Every time I put an R.E.M. song on at work I'm greeted by a collective moan and I'm not sure that's because they see me as predictable in my choice or whether they dislike the music. If I had to hazard a guess at people's general opinion of R.E.M. I would say they think of them as a band for grown-ups, writing depressing music and as the band with the singer with the whiney voice.
This was my reply:
Let me start off by discussing the "guilty pleasure" comment. To me a guilty pleasure is "bad" for you, but you do it anyway. When I think guilty pleasure related to pop culture, I think of art with no substance: popcorn flicks like Transformers and music by soulless pop artists like Ke$ha or Katy Perry. Calling REM a guilty pleasure is a huge insult to all of us! That journalist should be shot! (or at least maimed!)
But there always has been something perpetually "uncool" about REM (sadly). Let's face it: REM were their coolest in the 80s---true alternative outsiders that the mainstream couldn't understand. Eccecentric in manner and dress: comparable to the Shins or Death Cab or even The Black Keys (even though I'm not a huge fan of most of these bands!) And yet, their music has always been so subtle. REM have never had the cool/dangerous factor that some alt rock bands always have, no matter the size of their audience. You play a Smashing Pumpkins, NIN, Pearl Jam or Nirvana song for someone who has never heard of these bands, and it's hard to deny the music's power and appeal: I would never feel embarrassed to play "Even Flow" or "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" for someone . On the other hand, I have a distinct memory of playing "Driver 8" to some of my friends in high school and having one of them tell me (unimpressed) "this sounds like country." I mean, when I think of early kickass REM rock songs, the only ones that come to mind are "The One I Love" and "Orange Crush"--and these aren't really why I love REM.
Sadly, when REM finally did become world famous, it wasn't with an album like Nevermind: it was Out of Time. So now everyone at my high school knew who REM were, but all the time I heard taunts of "stand in the place where you live!" or "that's me in the corner!" of "shiny happy people laughing!" In short, REM still had no cool credibility with anyone around me. No one knew their 80s material, and their 90s material was beautiful, but not "cool" per se. To this day I have no idea how U2 have remained so popular--they've done just as many phases as REM. The only answer I can think of is that deep down U2 have always been a "rock" band--a cool band; while REM were a mystical jangly art rock band, who then turned rather mainstream and adult contemporary, who then turned VERY adult contemporary.
I remember reading a while back in some magazine where a journalist compared "I've Been High" on Reveal to a Phil Collins song--this was a major insult...and kind of true! So I know what you mean. REM fans love the band and Stipe's voice so much that we have no objectivity, but I can completely understand how the average person could hear a song like "Beat a Drum" or "Walk It Back" and think--"Good God, this is tedious!"
My proudest REM moment was when they swept the MTV video music awards--that was just so cool. And then they won the 1995 Video Vanguard award on MTV--that moment and speech was cool too. And of course when they signed the 80 million dollar contract, that was kind of a statement to the non-believers that REM were a "big deal." But it always comes back to the music, and for the last 5 albums, REM have remained (for the most part) very middle of the road. There have been very few times (or none, come to think of it) where I've been able to play REM for non-REM fans and have them say "Holy shit--this band is amazing!" They've never been that kind of band it seems. Their collection of singles and greatest hits is so different than U2's. Sometimes they write a song that really reminds me of older REM: Chorus and the Ring, Worst Joke Ever, most of Accelerate, but too often the REM of the last 5 albums for me has been "I'll Take The Rain"---and I wouldn't want to subject that song to anyone!
Okay, REM fans--what do you think? Is REM your "annoying little brother" who's cramping your style around your friends, or do you play them loud and proud!? Do you crank your car stereo at stoplights with the windows down and say to yourself "yeah, that's right assholes---green grow the rushes!"
Or are you heading for the volume button....?
