72 replies to this topic

[High_Speed_Train]

I now believe that if Collapse into Now had been a success, R.E.M. would still be around. Warner would still need them to appear in press conferences, television interviews, because Warner would be making money from the sale of the hottest album of the year. UBerlin would rule the airwaves, no sight of Adele. The band wouldn´t hesitate to renew their contract.

But only, only if Collapse into Now had been successful, if more units of it had sold, and if it had done better than that #5 spot on the Billboard list. The band´s member differences would have disappeared, gone away, because only success heals everything... Only if it had been succesful.

[2headedcow]

I don't believe any of this is true however we're all entitled to our opinions.

I believe REM had their mind made up to retire the band regardless of whether or not CIN was a success or not.  I think it was a success personally.  Define success!

I certainly don't believe that only success heals personal differences.  I'm sure that they have always had personal differences (it's human nature) even at the height of their success.

[Caleb Kyzer]

i don't agree either, as there are so many "goodbye" references in CiN.  i also think it's a great album, and a success in my book.  and a great way to go out.  the music world has changed since the 90s, so i don't think, even they put out another Out of Time or Automatic, it would not be as popular or successful now as they were in 91 and 92.   i'm sure any musician would love to have a top 20 song or album, and REM have had their share, but i don't really think getting in the charts was ever their goal (although Stipe repeatedly introduced Imitation of Life as a number 1 in Japan, if i remember right), especially not this late in their career.

[2headedcow]

I think that Stipe's mention of Imitation of life was more to do with the novelty of having a number 1 in Japan.  Maybe?

[Sweden]

They wanted to go out on a high note, in terms of the quality of the record. They (and many fans) think they did. A commercial sucess would only have reinforced that notion I think (even though Mike would maybe have hesitated more...an even tougher limelight abstinence for him...)

[welliwonder]

I couldn't disagree more.The band were very happy with CIN so it was a success as far as they were concerned ( units????), and the split was planned years ago ,and they're very happy about it all. So sorry , with respect I think you're wrong on just about every level.

[1two3four5]

am i the only one to sense the sarcasm?

[stipeeyes]

I also disagree.  These guys really don't care about album sales. Sure they might feel proud and happy that an album sells 10 million copies but I'm sure they never expect them too.  No artist should expect them too.  Collapse sold 142,000 in the States.  142,000 people is a lot of people.  The best albums to me are always ones that do not sell tons of copies.
The band did start talking about ending the band on the 2008 tour.  That's the part I don't like.  How do you go out on stage and see how happy the fans are to see you, than go back and have a private talk in a hotel or wherever and say hey guys we should break up.  If anything those happy faces should be a reason to keep going. Then after the guys finally announce the split they have the nerve to say, we're sad we can't play together again.  Guys, you can play together again, the fans wouldn't mind.

[Queen of Comedy]

stipeeyes, on 05 January 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

The band did start talking about ending the band on the 2008 tour.  That's the part I don't like.  How do you go out on stage and see how happy the fans are to see you, than go back and have a private talk in a hotel or wherever and say hey guys we should break up.  If anything those happy faces should be a reason to keep going. Then after the guys finally announce the split they have the nerve to say, we're sad we can't play together again.  Guys, you can play together again, the fans wouldn't mind.

I wrote about that in another thread ( http://www.murmurs.c...up/page__st__80 ):

Michael didn’t even want to tour for Accelerate. Then he fortunately changed idea, but at the beginning he was reluctant to tour. http://www.xfm.co.uk...-tour-this-year
So I’m not surprised if the disbanding decision was born during the Accelerate tour…maybe it was more tiring than usual for Michael and he decided to not tour anymore. Hence, the consequent split. IMHO Michael wanted to leave a good memory also as a frontman (and he’s the best frontman I’ve ever seen live!).
I remember in Torino that Michael said that he was starting to feel tired (but that being in Italy was the best medicine ) and that, despite all, he was even more energetic than in the previous legs. I feared it was his “swan’s song” .

I also think that Michael explained the reason in the Salon interview very well ( http://www.salon.com..._day/singleton/ ):

The tours were always amazing. When we were on stage, whatever problems we were having behind the scenes disappeared. We never took them on stage, and so as a live act, we forever gave it everything we had.
The second I was 40, which was 11 years ago, I thought to myself, “Look, I can’t.” I’m really tired, but I will do a tour because the guys want to do it and we need it – it’s good camaraderie. I can’t let myself give just a portion – I have to give everything I have for every song or I’m just that sad guy that’s in his 40s and holding onto some teenage dream. We didn’t move through the last decade with that feeling at all. I gave everything I had.
The idea of not ever being able to do that again is really sad for me. It’s actually painful to think about.

[High_Speed_Train]

This is not about the reasons why the band split. I believe there´s plenty of other threads about that.

The topic here is: imagine Collapse into Now had catapulted R.E.M. back into global stardom, fame of universal proportions.

R.E.M. would still be around.

If people had to get into a line to purchase Collapse into Now. If people were humming UBerlin as they commuted to work. If the clubs were playing All the Best, the lounges had remixes of Oh my Heart! in constant rotation and people sipped their martinis to Discoverer! (although I'd stay away from any place that played AAAA).

R.E.M. would still be around.

They'd be the darlings of Warner records again. Peter Buck would appear in every interview with his dark glasses, journalists and strangers alike dazzled by his guitar ablities. Only if Collapse into Now had been succesful, the no tour decision would be in revision at this very moment.

People would be eagerly expecting a follow up to Collapse into Now.

September 21st would have never come.

stipeeyes, on 05 January 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I also disagree.  These guys really don't care about album sales. Sure they might feel proud and happy that an album sells 10 million copies but I'm sure they never expect them too.  No artist should expect them too.  Collapse sold 142,000 in the States.  142,000 people is a lot of people.  The best albums to me are always ones that do not sell tons of copies.

I'm tired of reading that the members of R.E.M. don´t care about album sales. This is an idyllic picture. In what world music artists don't care about commercial performance? Buck-Mills-Stipe are demigods not to be disturbed by the mundane act of album sales?

I'll demonstrate that this is false with just a simple observation. Have you noticed recently that the periods of album release mostly coincide with periods of R.E.M. press coverage? Do you remember that around November 15, when Part Lies, Part Garbage was released, Mills and Stipe gave television interviews at almost the same time as the CD release?

They weren´t explaining why the band broke up (did they need to explain it?) they were selling the compilation, they were doing marketing and public relations, they were selling.

[michaels]

Let's say the last album went quadruple platinum or whatever. Would it have been off-form for the band to quit,given their previous decisions?

For example, look at what they did during their most commercially successful period. They hardly blazed the earth trying to squeeze every last dime out of Out of Time and Automatic. A cynical band would have.

So, whilst the question is an interesting one, and of course, money talks, I think we should give them more credit regarding the authenticity of their decision to call it a day after 3 decades.

[MAK]

REM retiring with dignity was one of the peak moments of 2011.  Collapse Into Now is the perfect goodbye album (I still hear it almost 1 time a week driving to work).  I am really really proud that they retire with that masterpiece, in their own terms and without selling out ever.

Nowadays is very very hard to groups like REM return to mainstream, that was only 90's because Alternative (grunge) was IN.  Now the music industry is dominated by social media, fans, youtube likes, etc.

I believe that their retirement is the BEST that could happen to Band Members, to FANS, and to the Music Industry.  They will be remembered for ever not also as one of the most influential original bands ever, but also will be reminded as the BEST EXAMPLE of saying good bye IN TIME, without any drug, death, alcohol, or sex scandal breaking up their friendship and the band.


R.E.M. Forever!

[Reverend Bill Funderburk]

I'll admit that I've wondered a time or two whether R.E.M. would still exist had CIN been a commercial success. I've come to the conclusion that it wouldn't have mattered. I think that Stipe, Buck, and Mills collectively had nothing more to say. They'd said and done everything they had to say and do. The word "relief" appeared repeatedly in interviews with Stipe and Mills after the announcement in September. That tells me the time was right.

[Pilgrimager]

High_Speed_Train, on 04 January 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

I now believe that if Collapse into Now had been a success, R.E.M. would still be around. Warner would still need them to appear in press conferences, television interviews, because Warner would be making money from the sale of the hottest album of the year. UBerlin would rule the airwaves, no sight of Adele. The band wouldn´t hesitate to renew their contract.

But only, only if Collapse into Now had been successful, if more units of it had sold, and if it had done better than that #5 spot on the Billboard list. The band´s member differences would have disappeared, gone away, because only success heals everything... Only if it had been succesful.

Most bands would say #5 on Billboard made it a success.

[Driver Nate]

Sounds like they already had their minds made up about throwing in the towel as far back as the Accelerate tour in 2008. No telling if massive sales for Collapse Into Now would have changed their minds but considering their comments when out making the rounds for Part Lies, Part Heart, Part Truth, Part Garbage I think their decision to disband was pretty much set in stone.

[High_Speed_Train]

Driver Nate, on 05 January 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

I think their decision to disband was pretty much set in stone.

My point is that circumstances might have changed, had they become again the darlings of Warner Records. It's very implausible I admit, but what if Collapse into Now had provided new momentum?

Pilgrimager, on 05 January 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Most bands would say #5 on Billboard made it a success.

This is fairly complacent given R.E.M.'s track record and stature.


To give an example, Collapse into Now would have been a great commercial succes if, let's say, the likelihood of walking into a place and hearing Oh my Heart was 90%.

[Driver Nate]

High_Speed_Train, on 05 January 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

My point is that circumstances might have changed, had they become again the darlings of Warner Records. It's very implausible I admit, but what if Collapse into Now had provided new momentum?

Hindsight is 20/20 but I don't think it would have changed their minds any. It was time.

[Driver Nate]

thorn plucker, on 05 January 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

the truth?  i think they announced their retirement because of everything that was happening here, at murmurs.com, that day.

http://www.murmurs.c...rk/page__st__80

i think that they may have discussed their options up until that point - but i don't think that they had REALLY planned to retire.

(or at least not on that very specific day)

Still haven't gone in for that psychiatric checkup? You might wanna look into that.

[Driver Nate]

thorn plucker, on 05 January 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

and you still haven't gotten that enema?

If you believe R.E.M. decided to disband because of that locked discussion you linked to, you're seriously off of your motherfucking rocker.

[michaels]

thorn plucker, on 05 January 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

the truth?  i think they announced their retirement because of everything that was happening here, at murmurs.com, that day.

http://www.murmurs.c...rk/page__st__80

i think that they may have discussed their options up until that point - but i don't think that they had REALLY planned to retire.

(or at least not on that very specific day)

I just spent ten minutes of my life reading that thread. I'll never get those back.....

Jings - the best bit was the Glasgow hacker, I got a wee bit paranoid at that.