63 replies to this topic

[7 chineSe robs.]

Hey, guys. Great job with this -- and I applaud you for, as you put it, "sticking your necks out." Cover bands don't always hit the mark, of course, but I always enjoy hearing others' interpretations of R.E.M.'s music, especially. Frankly, a few of the songs featured in your trailer ("Letter Never Sent," "Stumble" and "Old Man Kensey") recall the originals nearly note for note and chord for chord. Good job. Looking forward to the completed project!

[Lori]

Sounds great to me!  I like the promo video too, looks very R.E.M. inspired.

[twistedkite]

Again thanks.
I've come to the realization that to only post 1 or 2 songs (and then wait until the whole project is done) is a silly idea now that the cat's out of the bag (and since apparently murmurs.com...and hopefully the world..will go on). So, the plan is to film videos for these songs--nothing fancy, just an abstract visual accompaniment--and post them 1 by 1 to the owenshire youtube page. I will then start a thread in pop songs for each one. I'll begin with Ha (We Get Paid for It) (which will be up in the next couple of weeks or sooner) and then try for Theme From Two Steps Onward since I have an idea about what I want to film for that one.

[bluemookie]

twistedkite, on 05 December 2011 - 05:55 AM, said:

Again thanks.
I've come to the realization that to only post 1 or 2 songs (and then wait until the whole project is done) is a silly idea now that the cat's out of the bag (and since apparently murmurs.com...and hopefully the world..will go on). So, the plan is to film videos for these songs--nothing fancy, just an abstract visual accompaniment--and post them 1 by 1 to the owenshire youtube page. I will then start a thread in pop songs for each one. I'll begin with Ha (We Get Paid for It) (which will be up in the next couple of weeks or sooner) and then try for Theme From Two Steps Onward since I have an idea about what I want to film for that one.

Sounds like a fantastic project.  I'm jealous.  Just wish I could get in on this!  The idea of rerecording outtakes and unreleased R.E.M. songs is at the top of my list.  And after having been in 2 R.E.M. tribute bands, it's frustrating just playing the hits.

[cjr67]

twistedkite, on 04 December 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

Truth be told, I was and am most excited about the covers of the unreleased stuff since those songs are the ones that can be judged on their own merits without too much "REM bias" hindering acceptance by the community (one would hope). If all that comes out of this project is minor recognition for an unknown band who completed a few incredibly rare REM songs (and there are a good 4 more in the pipeline not in the video that people won't be expecting at all) then so be it. .

Chappaquiddick?  

[Driver Nate]

7 chineSe robs., on 05 December 2011 - 03:14 AM, said:

Frankly, a few of the songs featured in your trailer ("Letter Never Sent," "Stumble" and "Old Man Kensey") recall the originals nearly note for note and chord for chord.

No offense to the overall purpose of the project but when it comes to covers, I like it better when the artist puts their own spin on them rather than simply replicating the original. I've never really understood the reasoning behind that.

[twistedkite]

And to reply to Driver Nate's completely fair comment/question, I supply the "Remember Every Moment" liner notes. Yes, they are long, but thorough:

Some believe that to produce a successful cover, the cover artist must substantially change the original: to irrevocably deconstruct the song and make it his or her own. In some cases, this logic is undoubtedly true.  Some truly excellent cover songs have emerged from the ashes of their originals: Pearl Jam’s “Last Kiss,” Nirvana's "Sonofagun," and REM’s “Superman” rank as fine examples of songs that far supersede the pleasures of their originals.  

However, sometimes the opposite emerges: in their zest to make a wholly unique interpretation, cover artists risk stripping the original song of its beauty and magic—the very ingredients that made it special to begin with. I experienced this disappointment first hand when listening to that benchmark of all REM tribute albums Surprise Your Pig. Released in 1992, Surprise Your Pig features a who’s who of Indie rock hopefuls distorting, shouting, and generally stumbling (if you’ll pardon the pun) their way through the many moods of REM. And despite some tracks existing as wholly separate entities from their originals, their departure from the source material offered an often frustrating, if not outright grating, listening experience.

Remember Every Moment is not Surprise Your Pig.  But whether this remains its strength is for you, dear listener, to decide. Conceived in May 2010 over the internet and over two continents, Remember Every Moment brings together the skills of two dedicated (and some would certainly say obsessive) REM fans. If imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery, then REM should certainly be flattered: Clive Butler’s interpretation of Peter Buck’s and Mike Mills’s playing style is similar enough to not only be technically impressive, but also raises the word “homage” far beyond a pejorative; while Robert Muhlbock delivers his vocals with unabashedly signature Michael Stipe flourishes, yet still in a voice all his own.  

In the end, Remember Every Moment grounds the listener in potentially familiar territory, while offering new delights. Its two volume tracklist remains eclectic and expansive, bringing together in a fully finished form many songs from REM’s past that the band had elected not to complete. Accordingly, therein lies the album’s greatest pleasure and greatest purpose: two fans interpreting what might have been. And isn’t that also one of the benchmark’s by which all great covers are measured? One would hope so.

[twistedkite]

And let's not forget that Owenshire is not an REM cover band, per se--that's not why I exist. This truly is an Owenshire side-project: a goal of mine to create an expansive collection of covers devoted to my favourite band.

I know it's hard to accept given that nothing is uploaded to the internet, but I consider myself a thriving solo artist in my own right: don't think of these songs so much as REM covers by some random band, but as Owenshire covering various REM songs. I know they might seem like the same thing, but there's a difference...to me anyway. My primary goal is to expose Owenshire fans (should they exist) to these covers; the complement to that is exposing already established REM fans to Owenshire.

Of course all of this sounds like lofty bullshit until the rest of the Owenshire puzzle is filled in.
In the meantime, I just thought the REM community would be interested.....and (sorry to repeat myself) I only uploaded this stuff now because I thought this goddamn site was shutting down on the 31st!

The simple fact remains that I have yet to hear an REM cover song that I really like--I always go back to the originals. If anything, this our attempt to produce covers where the average listener pauses a bit longer ...before going back to the originals.

[bluemookie]

twistedkite, on 05 December 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:

The simple fact remains that I have yet to hear an REM cover song that I really like--I always go back to the originals. If anything, this our attempt to produce covers where the average listener pauses a bit longer ...before going back to the originals.

THIS!  I suppose the only way to do a better version than R.E.M.'s, is to use a song that is way below standards, and was not only left off the album, but wasn't even chosen for a b-side!  Even so, I still prefer the demo of Narrator to the Hindu Love Gods version.

[Sweden]

twistedkite, on 05 December 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

Clive Butler’s interpretation of Peter Buck’s and Mike Mills’s playing style

Bill Berry, anyone?

Didn't listen through the youtube clip that thoroughly, even though I like the idea of reworking unreleased songs, but please please please tell me you're not working with programmed drums? That would sadly put much of the whole project to shame, in my mind.  Bill's playing is so essential to the feeling of especially 80's R.E.M. that using programmed drums would be a bit like using Garage Band's "bass groove #1" for the bass lines...

What youtube user name was the instrumental covers under? (I.e., which guy are you working with?) "danielearwicker" has done some brilliant covers on there of course. There's also a guy in a garage or something who sometimes plays organ bass parts with his feet(!?). Pretty strange. There's another guy who did multi-camera versions with vocals and stuff.

/D

Edit: those ARE indeed programmed drums it seems...right?   ( )
*weeps*

[twistedkite]

Regarding bluemookie's comment above Sweden's, well, that was kind of the idea: covering songs that the band had discarded/neglected....even as B-sides! I mean, Ha (We get Paid For It), Fall Above (AKA the Unknown 1982 song), another unknown 1982 song (TBA later), Title, Theme From Two Steps, That Beat, and, yes, a couple more (not so obvious) surprises to be revealed later on.

I'm well aware that many of you (like me) might give a cover that is too similar to REM's version a casual listen and then move on. That's fair. But, for us, the real fun of the project was completing these old, lost, discarded songs.

Okay, as for Sweden's comments...sigh...yes goddamn it, yes, they are programmed drums (via garage band no less)!! Look buddy, we can't have our cake and eat it too! When I went looking for REM instrumentals I found Clive's page [BTW his Youtube page is http://www.youtube.com/user/cliveuk25 and his blog with his newer covers is http://www.notboundt...t.blogspot.com/]  And I was just blown away. Put yourself in my position--beggars can't be choosers. I mean, here was an opportunity to sing along to basically every REM song I ever imagined. And the guy is meticulous!

So while I know the whole "programmed" drums thing might be a deal breaker for some--and I'm aware that there are a few on this site--nay, the world--who are full-fledged audio aficionados--I had to ask myself "where the hell am I ever going to find a group of people willing to play all of these REM covers?" In the end, I found Clive--a guy who loves unreleased and vintage REM as much as me...AND has the chops (not to mention patience) to arrange drums, play all the bass, guitar, and organ as well.

Programmed drums was a compromise I was willing to make.
And there was no disrespect meant to Bill Berry in the slightest.

Of course, now I'm sure we'll be inundated with comments from super-awesome drummers in the community who are all like "you should have called me up!"  

[Sweden]

twistedkite, on 05 December 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

Okay, as for Sweden's comments...sigh...yes goddamn it, yes, they are programmed drums (via garage band no less)!! Look buddy, we can't have our cake and eat it too! When I went looking for REM instrumentals I found Clive's page [BTW his Youtube page is http://www.youtube.com/user/cliveuk25 and his blog with his newer covers is http://www.notboundt...t.blogspot.com/]  And I was just blown away. Put yourself in my position--beggars can't be choosers. I mean, here was an opportunity to sing along to basically every REM song I ever imagined. And the guy is meticulous!

So while I know the whole "programmed" drums thing might be a deal breaker for some--and I'm aware that there are a few on this site--nay, the world--who are full-fledged audio aficionados--I had to ask myself "where the hell am I ever going to find a group of people willing to play all of these REM covers?" In the end, I found Clive--a guy who loves unreleased and vintage REM as much as me...AND has the chops (not to mention patience) to arrange drums, play all the bass, guitar, and organ as well.

Programmed drums was a compromise I was willing to make.
And there was no disrespect meant to Bill Berry in the slightest.

Of course, now I'm sure we'll be inundated with comments from super-awesome drummers in the community who are all like "you should have called me up!"  

Actually, I probably could have done the drums to quite a number of those songs fairly well (but may have struggled with some)... They could have been recorded in my home studio, either on the electronic or acoustic drum kit.

Anyway, I understand the situation but honestly feel this degrades the whole project pretty substantially for me personally. Not sure if others will agree as you're certainly not alone in showing disrespect to drummers (people of course often question how drummer could even get credit for a song where they "only" wrote the drum track). And, if you want to pick bands where the drumming actually is a hugely substantial part of the feeling, structure, motion and musicality of the song, then (especially 80's) R.E.M.  would certainly be on top of that list. Sadly.

I honestly do think you can draw the parallell to Garage Band's standard bass tracks, would you have used those? Mike's bass playing is pretty far from your standard bass groves, see Clive's comment on Maps & Legends for example: "I also think this song could feature probably my favourite Mike Mills bass line ever. It's a perfect example of a melodic style of bass playing, the complete opposite to the sort of unimaginative bass line that is simply locked to the guitar chords. A joy to learn to play. "

As far as Mike's bass is from your standard grooves, just as far is Bill's drumming from the programmed stuff shown here, both in terms of structure and execution. And from a more technical sound point, the whole dynamic is lost for one thing. If you listen to the tracks you have made available so far, there is no difference in volume between various parts of the song. You also miss completely the aspect of the sound of the snare and other drums varying with the velocity of the hit. Etc, etc...

To conclude, as a fan and a guitarist/drummer I think the project is a pretty cool idea, especially the aspect of unreleased songs, and the guitar and bass stuff is pretty well executed. (The films perhaps less so... ) But, it's honestly really crap that you use programmed drums, thereby completely degrading 1/4 of the tight quartet that was R.E.M. Sorry.

/David

[welliwonder]

Please don't take this the wrong way , the playing is great etc etc etc.

BUT

As Sweden mentioned , guys like Daniel Earwicker does this stuff to th nth degree with both r.e.m and the Smiths and I would guess its only really  interesting to musicians right? I mean , its interesting to see how stuff is played, which chords , how the basslines interact with guitar lines etc etc but I cant see the point of copying stuff to the minutest detail and then releasing it? Its difficult enough to sell cd's even when you ARE r.e.m. !!!

Also a shaky black and white bit of film doesn't make it all okay.

I think these guys should soak up all their r.e.m. influences and then sit down and chanel it into some new songs of their own , and then get out there and get people into it. r.e.m. were always trying to encourage others to create and if you did went and did that  it  really would be a true tribute to them.

All meant with respect.

[Lori]

A lot of work must be going into this project.   I appauld you for that.

[Lori]

welliwonder, on 06 December 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

I cant see the point of copying stuff to the minutest detail and then releasing it? Its difficult enough to sell cd's even when you ARE r.e.m. !!!

All meant with respect.

The story posted said "All songs will be available for free download from Owenshire’s bandcamp page."  Nothing was said about selling cd's.

[twistedkite]

Regarding Sweden, dude, what can I say that I haven't already said in my previous post? I love Bill Berry. No hate for drummers was intended. Personally, I tend to think "REM" as we knew it died when he left the band...and I'm not alone. Dave Grohl was integral to Nirvana. Jimmy Chamberlin made SP. And Neil Peart? There is no one higher! Please, please, don't lump me in with people disrespecting drummers: you're, so, like, disrespecting my respect with disrespect.  

As for this project losing meaning/enjoyment for you, again, your point is well made and certainly valid...but it will go on...it has to damn it! Do you know how much anxiety, self-doubt, self-loathing, exhaustion, heart-ache and joy has already gone into it!? 21 million barrrels! (yes, more barrels than the US uses oil per day...sad, I know).  Actually, I view all things "Owenshire" as a work in progress with rotating members. Clive and I have all the master tracks in Wav format on our computers. So, I say, there is potentially nothing stopping us from giving you (or any drummer) the rough tracks to all the guitar, vocal and bass parts and having you put drums to them. That said, I don't know how hard that would be to do in reverse (although since the drums were programmed first, the timing is certainly correct). And I also haven't ran this idea by Clive.

The programmed drums came out of necessity, not choice. We're talking 40 REM songs--ALL of which are unreleased or lesser known material (ie: What if We Give It Away). 3/4 of the pieces were in place. We could have waited forever for the 4th---a vital 4th, mind you--but it wasn't going to happen. I'm not getting any younger.

So I guess the only song that might hold the slighted interest to you would be our cover of the early version of Perfect Circle on drum machine--- having programed drums certainly seems valid there.

As for Welliwonder's comments, I think I've addressed those in previous posts as well: Owenshire is a trio from Kitchener Ontatio fronted by me (I now live in London). I have a good 9 albums worth of demos. We have 2 studio albums, and an album of studio B-sides and remixes. I have another 7 albums of my own songs. I am NOT an REM cover band. I am my own singer-songwriter who loves REM and wanted to do a big project. The REM songs are NOT for sale--not only is that copyright infringement (even though I also know that merely covering a song and releasing for free is STILL copyright infringement, but to a lesser degree) I wouldn't dream of trying to make money off of someone else's music...I have no interest in that. Ideally all of my original songs would be up and in place before I "exposed" Remember Every Moment to such a wide audience...but it was not to be.

As for creating covers that sound 99% similar to the original...well, that's impossible...they'll never sound 99% because Clive is a different player, I'm a different singer, and we don't have access to professional studios or producers. I don't see these songs as carbon copies. I see them as Owenshire covering REM songs...but covering them faithfully. For example, take REM's cover of Midnight Blue--their rendition is pretty close to the original: mostly same tempo, mostly same instrumentation....but slightly changed and of course with the wonderful Michael Stipe on vocals. vs

So, again, I can appreciate how most people (on this site in particular) will give most of these songs a passing listen and then move on--I fully anticipate that. The real draw/curiosity of the project (as I always saw it) for REM fans was hearing covers of the stuff that never saw the light of day--and of course loving or hating it. I mean, our cover of That Beat has harmonies all over it--some could very well turn their noses up....others could think "yeah, that's not too bad." Patience, people, patience....

You guys are seriously killing my buzz...but that's fine. I've been on these boards long enough to see even the best band in the world (obviously REM) stripped to the bone. THE BONE!!! Closer to the bone even---the sickly sweet marrow! Which is fine. I am not a vain person--I fully acknowledge all the flaws in the project. Frankly I'm surprised someone hasn't posted "the playing is fine; the singing is shit!" yet   Which I can appreciate too!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to mark some essays, then make a shaky black and white video for an unreleased REM song recorded with a lot of heart, and one that unfortunately has programmed drums.

[bluemookie]

twistedkite, on 06 December 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

You guys are seriously killing my buzz...

Ahh....that's just Sweden being Sweden.  I damn near gave up my lyric discussion threads due to him.  He means well, but doesn't realize his comments come off offensive sometimes.  Still, it's hard to hold a grudge, let alone dislike a fellow R.E.M. fan!

[cjr67]

Glad you're not going to let all the negativity dampen your enthusiasm for the project.  I think you've both done a great job from what I've heard so far and I'm looking forward to hearing the rest!

[Sweden]

I know the above was pretty harsh, and while I indeed feel that way, it should maybe be reiterated that I highly appreciate your effort. I know how time-consuming recording is, especially when done via bouncing tracks back and forth over email. I guess it's also because of that fact I sort of deplore that it in my mind will end up as a somewhat "incomplete" effort.

On a more concrete note, I'd happy to try to do drums on a track or two at some point down the line, if nothing else you do need to hold me to it since I made these comments...

As for Perfect Circle, the snippet in the youtube clip was pretty reminiscent of the '82 live version, drum machine and all, so good work there!

[bluemookie]

Yeah, and if you need someone to lay down bass, coming from someone that's been playing for 25+ years and plays exactly like Mike (he's the reason I started with that instrument), let me know.  I'd love to contribute.  I realize this project is nearing completion, but if you ever do another...