42 replies to this topic

[Oowatanite]

Driver Nate, on 13 November 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

I had no idea that was Bill on the cover of Document. I thought the only album he'd been on the cover of was Lifes Rich Pageant.

It`s actually Michael on the cover of document. Bill on the cover of LRP was a reference to Buffalo Bill.

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[Driver Nate]

Oowatanite, on 13 November 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

It`s actually Michael on the cover of document. Bill on the cover of LRP was a reference to Buffalo Bill.

That's what I thought. At any rate, I didn't interpret them being on the cover of Collapse Into Now as a sign of R.E.M.'s imminent demise, same thing for Stipe waving.

[sciryl2K]

wagtail, on 12 November 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

I think it is "help me off to sleep"

ETA:  this is wisdom after the fact, or course.....I originally thought the album was a bit of a fuck you and goodbye to the corporation/hype machine......so while I saw it as the end of an era 'see ya', I was definitely anticipating a new beginning...maybe it was just the optimist in me.  Stipe establishing an online identity and looking at different ways of presenting an album fit in with that to me.  I still think it's a pity they weren't interested in trying something independently, even if it was just a kind of digital visual EP or sumthin'.

It is, I stand corrected. Just goes to show that even when they print the lyrics, I don't bother reading them because I want to discover my own meaning to the songs as much as possible, whether that means a misheard lyric or a different interpretation of the whole song.

And I thought the same thing of CIN when first released: a goodbye to the corporate hype machine of the 20th century. One or two DIY albums/EPs would have been amazing, but the time was right and I don't blame them one bit. They've earned it.

[wagtail]

sciryl2K, on 13 November 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

It is, I stand corrected. Just goes to show that even when they print the lyrics, I don't bother reading them because I want to discover my own meaning to the songs as much as possible, whether that means a misheard lyric or a different interpretation of the whole song.

And I thought the same thing of CIN when first released: a goodbye to the corporate hype machine of the 20th century. One or two DIY albums/EPs would have been amazing, but the time was right and I don't blame them one bit. They've earned it.

Yeah, I'm the same actually, I don't read the lyrics sheet...unless there is something I'm  REALLY curious about and want confirmation I'm hearing it right.  I wasn't entirely sure about the Brando lyric myself, and got to thinking about it and thought that "help me off to sea" is kinda Stipean too...in a Find the River kind of way.  I like it.

Totally agree with the last sentiment too.  I liked what Stipe had to say about owning their successes and their failures, I hope I can have an attitude like that when I'm ready to call it quits on my current job.  But I have to admit that the more they speak about it, the more confused I feel - it's weird.  On the day I heard they'd retired I was fine with the news and thought that it was probably a total relief for them [I was probably projecting a bit at the time, because I'd just resolved some work issues myself]...but now it seems kinda strange - I think it's the comments about the occupy movement that plays on my mind.  I guess I'm just super-curious about what might have been, I think that's a pretty obvious way to feel, but it still annoys me that I can't just shrug my shoulders, get drunk and move on. he-heh.

[wagtail]

REMCHICAGOBOY, on 13 November 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

I think they were at one point? Mike mentioned it in very small detail, as well as Peter. I think I read on here that, while it all sounds incredibly cool or whatever to do it yourself, at the same time it's very, very difficult to go it yourself. I only know of the Beatles' Apple and the Rolling Stones' own Rolling Stones records as being successful at it, while others like Madonna, Elton John and Aimee Mann have struggled at it.

I guess it depends on what you mean by successful, but most of the bands I listen to have more or less self-published at some point - I think the latest Sigur Ros might be a self-release actually, although it's weird because I think they are still signed to EMI.  Sonic Youth have done it, likewise Radiohead.

Mike has said that he'll definitely make music, so I imagine he'll want to publish it somewhere, in which case he's going to have to explore the details at some point.  It's funny because he seems to have been the one who sees digital distribution as a threat, more than an opportunity.

I wasn't really talking about a typical album release, more just something whimsical if they'd felt like getting together to record a few songs for the heck of it.  oh well, It's all academic now anyway.

REMCHICAGOBOY, on 13 November 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

I have to also say I don't know why everyone is mentioning their lack of promotion for CIN as a "clue" they were disbanding. It's not like it would have been the first time they did very little to no promotion, tour, etc. AFTP as well as NAIHF both had very little to no promotion or tours. At least we got a bunch of interviews, Hanza and films for CIN.

Everyone?  Noone in this thread has said anything about the lack of promotion....?  I thought the promo for CiN was pretty good.

[2headedcow]

wagtail, on 13 November 2011 - 11:35 PM, said:

Everyone?  Noone in this thread has said anything about the lack of promotion....?  I thought the promo for CiN was pretty good.

What is noone?  I see it written more often every day.  Not just you Wags.

[wagtail]

no-one....?

was that a serious question?

should it be hyphenated?  I think I've always written it like that.

hmm.

btw, 2headed, I've been meaning to ask - did you ever go to uni in Warrnambool?  You look a bit like someone I kinda used to know.

[2headedcow]

wagtail, on 14 November 2011 - 12:59 AM, said:

no-one....?

was that a serious question?

should it be hyphenated?  I think I've always
written it like that.

hmm.

btw, 2headed, I've been meaning to ask - did
you ever go to uni in Warrnambool?  You look a bit like someone I kinda used to know.

It was a serious question.  I was under the impression it was two words- no one.  I might be
wrong though.

I lived in Ballarat 1988- 2005.  I had connections with the Warnambool Pipe Band if that means
anything to you.
Warnambool is a lovely part of the world.

[2headedcow]

Look at me preaching about spelling and I spelled Warrnambool with one r.

[wagtail]

ah, okay.  I stand corrected on the "no one" thing.  I'm useless at that type of thing, I used to be convinced that thank you was one word too, like goodbye.

The person I'm thinking of was a sociology student at Deakin for a brief spell.  He was a massive REM fan and gave me an REM mix tape by ways of an apology for a rather hilarious incident one night.  Just thought it'd be funny if it were you, there's quite a resemblance.

Yeah, Warrnambool is a nice place....have you been to Athens, GA?   It kinda reminded me of the old town a bit.

[2headedcow]

I have only ever been to Athens GA in my mind.  Maybe one day Wags.

[rosie]

the self-referential nature of the record always seemed deliberate to me, and the circularity signalling an ending/beginning (blue - discoverer reprise).  
also, i wonder whether michael's brave decision to allow other artists to create videos for the songs was an indication that he was starting to hand over the reins in an artistic sense.
all of these things struck me when the album was released, but i can't say i interpreted this as the end of the band.  of course, that wonderful thing hindsight clarifies everything, and i really wasn't as shocked as some people when they announced that they were calling it a day.

[Pilgrimager]

REMCHICAGOBOY, on 11 November 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

H

BTW, it really should not have been THAT big of a shock now inside since their WB contract was about to end.

I wonder if WB even offered another five record renewal like the did after New Adventures in Hi-Fi? (Has that ever been discussed here?... hmmmm)

I think that's the big missed opportunity. They don't need a record co.  now. They could just put music out as downloads and have more freedom to put out what they wanted.

[Pilgrimager]

haggis, on 13 November 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

I didn't necessarily see it as a wave goodbye at the time....agree with you.  As I and others said at the time it was a very Stipean gesture...he does this in concert and in many photos.

They were on the cover of ATS as well although blurred.

yep. That's what I thought too. It only seems so obvious now as does the title which would have been a dead giveaway if it was made known it was Patti Smiths idea to use that as the title.

[Driver Nate]

Pilgrimager, on 15 November 2011 - 04:50 AM, said:

I think that's the big missed opportunity. They don't need a record co.  now. They could just put music out as downloads and have more freedom to put out what they wanted.

According to what I've read, at least from Mills, the question of how to distribute their music and have it noticed, seemed to be a big stumbling block. That's not just true of R.E.M., it seems to be the case with a lot of artists. These days, some people seem to feel they're entitled to music without actually paying for it. Considering that's how musicians make a good deal of their money (touring being another means), I'm sure they found that incredibly frustrating. With that in mind, if they had continued independent of Warner Brothers, I seriously doubt that they would have made their music available just as downloads. I may be in the minority but I still prefer to buy a tangible, physical product whether it be on CD or vinyl. Considering that R.E.M. usually made their music available in a variety of formats, I would think they felt the same way about it.

[e-botti]

well, the fact thay are on the cover is important as they are there all togheter as a portrait photo. that said, michael is saying "goodbye" in the front cover and in the back cover they're going away...

[LowFeedback]

As Stipe stated in an interview (http://www.salon.com..._day/singleton/), its intented (which I can see from some of the posts here is bothering some, the whole intented-ness of the album...) that Patti Smith is the closing point of the album (her vocals staying just a little second longer than Stipe's repeated "blue blue"), as she was where it all began; with Stipe's late night listening and throwing up together with the album Horses. Also the circular bit of Blue ending with the beginning is a nod to Fables of the Reconstruction of the Fables. And, oh, "if predictioin leads us to the final fall". So there's a good handful of them, in there. Blue, as well, as being sort of a confrontation by Stipe regarding his earlier established posision as a poet (he writes about this in the liner notes of Part Part Part Part as I understand; how he was called a new Walt Whitman regarding Finest Worksong - "I want Whitman proud" is, if I've not misheard or misunderstood, a reference to, if not exactly what he writes in the liner notes, his position as a lyric writer, which is far away from poet by all means).

[Scootre]

After being "trained" by MS to not "confuse the singer with the song" or whatever he said years ago I didn't take anything literal in the lyrics.

[LowFeedback]

That Someone Is You could be seen as a challenge to young musicians to pick up where R.E.M. left off, or where R.E.M. began: Stipe sitting in a record store hoping for some young hopeful ones to go ahead, to be the someone to make it. But this is - as I'm aware of - stretching it a bit far.

[Joni Smeke]

Meh, I still don't see how CIN has more hints of being a final album than other albums in the R.E.M. catalogue, especially NAIHF. I mean, I can see the band dropping hints, just not more than on other records. It could have ended that way with CIN too, lots of hints about calling it a day, yet still recording one more album.