42 replies to this topic

[Discoverer]

I remember when CIN came out there was discussion about certain hints being thrown in on the album about it being their last. Most of those people were shot down at the time....though now Stipe and Mills have both said there were hints to the fans.

I can name two

The band waving goobye on the cover

All The Best Lyric.....'I'll sing it right, I'll give it one more time, I'll show the kids how to do it fine, fine, fine'



Are there anymore on the album?

[Driver Nate]

Discoverer, on 11 November 2011 - 10:41 AM, said:

Are there anymore on the album?

"Blue"

[2headedcow]

Maybe the title is a reference.  Collapse into now.
I think Patti came up with the title but my guess is that maybe she knew that it was their last offering to the fans.

[beatadrum]

2headedcow, on 11 November 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

Maybe the title is a reference.  Collapse into now.
I think Patti came up with the title but my guess is that maybe she knew that it was their last offering to the fans.

that's a lyric from Blue as well though.

[2headedcow]

beatadrum, on 11 November 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

that's a lyric from Blue as well though.

Yes true.

[REMCHICAGOBOY]

Head over to YouTube and watch the Hanza footage for "All the Best". I noticed that at 1:27, while Michael is singing the lyric, Peter looks across the room and gives Mike a little smile, as if to acknowledge the lyric and the "inside joke".

The cover is sooooo obvious now, Michael's wave "goodbye".

BTW, it really should not have been THAT big of a shock now inside since their WB contract was about to end.

I wonder if WB even offered another five record renewal like the did after New Adventures in Hi-Fi? (Has that ever been discussed here?... hmmmm)

[sciryl2K]

I know others have mentioned that the lyric in "Marlon Brando" - "lay me down, down / help me off to sea..." - could be read as laying the rock star part of them to rest. Or maybe just Michael, if it's one of his few autobiographical moments.

This is perhaps less direct, but "Discoverer's whole stance of "hey, remember when we used to have that sense of possibility in our lives?" seems to reflect the desire to move on to new things. The reprise makes it clear that it's a key song. (Related: I listened to it recently and pictured it as the song that would play during the titles of a TV sci-fi drama, with the final title card showing as the ending fades into that last chord).

Other references:
"It Happened Today" - the verses
"Every Day is Yours to Win" - "it's all there waiting for you"

The whole theme of the album is letting go of the past as it collapses and a new reality comes in, like when a new version of your life (job, home, social group) replaces the old one.

I don't usually share personal stuff here, but I was watching the Hansa version of "All The Best" today on youtube and just broke down crying when the "overstay my welcome" part came on. Just when you think you're all moved on...

[iskra]

How about the way the entire album does nothing but reference songs from the past? Not so much lyrically, but musically. Everything seems like a mash-up or the band's past work. I think that was the biggest giveaway for me more than the lyrics. Stipe's always dropped hints about certain things in his lyrics in the past. I'm not sure this was necessarily the case with CIN.

[Pete B]

Mine smell like honey - if the end comes faster than we expected

[Driver Nate]

sciryl2K, on 11 November 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Other references:
"It Happened Today" - the verses

I'm pretty sure I recall reading that this song was written about Vic Chesnutt but I've yet to receive any sort of confirmation of that. If so, I'd hate to see it misappropriated as a R.E.M. "farewell" song.

[ebowtheloser]

Driver Nate, on 12 November 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I recall reading that this song was written about Vic Chesnutt but I've yet to receive any sort of confirmation of that. If so, I'd hate to see it misappropriated as a R.E.M. "farewell" song.

I can be both, no?

[Driver Nate]

ebowtheloser, on 12 November 2011 - 09:50 AM, said:

I can be both, no?

People can interpret songs differently than the artist originally intended them so in that sense, yes. However, if it was written with the memory of Vic Chesnuttt in mind, I would hate to see that aspect of "It Happened Today" overshadowed by fans projecting another "end of R.E.M." message onto it. In a similar vein, if "Let Me In" (which was written with Kurt Cobain in mind) was misinterpreted by fans to be about something else entirely, that would be a shame.

[ebowtheloser]

Driver Nate, on 12 November 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

People can interpret songs differently than the artist originally intended them so in that sense, yes. However, if it was written with the memory of Vic Chesnuttt in mind, I would hate to see that aspect of "It Happened Today" overshadowed by fans projecting another "end of R.E.M." message onto it. In a similar vein, if "Let Me In"(which was written with Kurt Cobain in mind) was misinterpreted by fans to be about something else entirely, that would be a shame.

Right. I see what you mean.

[stipeeyes]

Quote

The cover is sooooo obvious now, Michael's wave "goodbye".

BTW, it really should not have been THAT big of a shock now inside since their WB contract was about to end.

I wonder if WB even offered another five record renewal like the did after New Adventures in Hi-Fi? (Has that ever been discussed here?... hmmmm)

Michael has put his hand up like that in other pictures and on stage so that's why I didn't think nothing of it.  I just figured they put themselves on the album to do something they didn't do before.  Michael is on the cover of Reveal.  Bill is on the cover of document.

Since when does a band have to break up because they completed their record contract?   This would make it sound like they broke up just because the contract ended.  That alone would not be a good reason.  It's not like there are no other record companies.  You don't always have to sign the 5 album deal.  Eventually there may not be record companies anymore.   Warner could of offered them another deal and maybe they refused.  Who knows.

[REMCHICAGOBOY]

stipeeyes, on 12 November 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Michael has put his hand up like that in other pictures and on stage so that's why I didn't think nothing of it.  I just figured they put themselves on the album to do something they didn't do before.  Michael is on the cover of Reveal.  Bill is on the cover of document.

Since when does a band have to break up because they completed their record contract?   This would make it sound like they broke up just because the contract ended.  That alone would not be a good reason.  It's not like there are no other record companies.  You don't always have to sign the 5 album deal.  Eventually there may not be record companies anymore.   Warner could of offered them another deal and maybe they refused.  Who knows.

Mike has stated numberous times now that they've all acknowleged over the past couple years the upcoming changes to their WB contract as a reason for their retirement. While not the main reason, it was certainly part of their discussions.

[wagtail]

sciryl2K, on 11 November 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

I know others have mentioned that the lyric in "Marlon Brando" - "lay me down, down / help me off to sea..." - could be read as laying the rock star part of them to rest. Or maybe just Michael, if it's one of his few autobiographical moments.

I think it is "help me off to sleep"....I reckon the lyrics to this song are some of his best writing - in that typically simple, but multi-layered way.  The 'lay me down, help me off to sleep' thing is particularly clever, thinking about it now....with the whole R.E.M.-sleep-dream-theme-thing.  The pawning of the gold rings is a bit of a hat tip to retirement in a way too.  To me the trilogy of Discoverer/Brando/Blue are very self-referential/autobiographical.  I mentioned it before, but they are the precious metal tunes, lots of references to gold platinum brass and bronze.

Having said all of that, the knowledge that this was so thoroughly planned out has kinda detracted from my enjoyment of the album - it now has a singular meaning, and what seemed like a bit of fun, whimsical self-referencing now is kinda sombre and well, to be honest, a bit too much pretense and self-indulgence.  I think they have a really healthy attitude to it all and good on 'em, so I say that not to be hostile, just being honest - comparing my reaction to it now versus when I first heard the album.  Which brings me to this line:   "The winners write the rule books, the histories and the lullabies".  I think it kinda sums up what they were attempting with Collapse, an expression of their rules, and an attempt at writing their own history and singing themselves off to [R.E.M.] sleep.

ETA:  this is wisdom after the fact, or course.....I originally thought the album was a bit of a fuck you and goodbye to the corporation/hype machine......so while I saw it as the end of an era 'see ya', I was definitely anticipating a new beginning...maybe it was just the optimist in me.  Stipe establishing an online identity and looking at different ways of presenting an album fit in with that to me.  I still think it's a pity they weren't interested in trying something independently, even if it was just a kind of digital visual EP or sumthin'.

[haggis]

stipeeyes, on 12 November 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Michael has put his hand up like that in other pictures and on stage so that's why I didn't think nothing of it.  I just figured they put themselves on the album to do something they didn't do before.  Michael is on the cover of Reveal.  Bill is on the cover of document.

I didn't necessarily see it as a wave goodbye at the time....agree with you.  As I and others said at the time it was a very Stipean gesture...he does this in concert and in many photos.

They were on the cover of ATS as well although blurred.

[2headedcow]

haggis, on 13 November 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

I didn't necessarily see it as a wave goodbye at the time....agree with you.  As I and others said at the time it was a very Stipean gesture...he
does this in concert and in many photos.

They were on the cover of ATS as well although blurred.

It looks to me like 3 Stipes on the ATS cover, not the whole band.  I might be wrong.

[REMCHICAGOBOY]

wagtail, on 12 November 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

I still think it's a pity they weren't interested in trying something independently, even if it was just a kind of digital visual EP or sumthin'.

I think they were at one point? Mike mentioned it in very small detail, as well as Peter. I think I read on here that, while it all sounds incredibly cool or whatever to do it yourself, at the same time it's very, very difficult to go it yourself. I only know of the Beatles' Apple and the Rolling Stones' own Rolling Stones records as being successful at it, while others like Madonna, Elton John and Aimee Mann have struggled at it.

I have to also say I don't know why everyone is mentioning their lack of promotion for CIN as a "clue" they were disbanding. It's not like it would have been the first time they did very little to no promotion, tour, etc. AFTP as well as NAIHF both had very little to no promotion or tours. At least we got a bunch of interviews, Hanza and films for CIN.

[Driver Nate]

I had no idea that was Bill on the cover of Document. I thought the only album he'd been on the cover of was Lifes Rich Pageant.

As far as the contract with Warner Brothers, I think the fact that it was time for it to be up wasn't the only deciding factor for them to call it quits. Considering there were other factors that were also pointing towards the end of R.E.M., it just made for a clean cutting off point.

In regards to their future beyond Collapse Into Now, I was under the impression there might just be one from some of what I read from EThan here. Thing is, if their hearts simply weren't in working together anymore, even a scenario that would have freed them from record company pressures wouldn't have helped any. Bottom line is, now was the time and they made the right decision.