27 replies to this topic

[robertandrews]

Please see my post at http://www.murmurs.c...ost__p__2070148

R.E.M. may no longer write or perform new material together, but that doesn't mean their work nor our experience of it should count for nothing. Now is the time to build the foundation for remembering, celebrating, engaging with and sharing our experience of the band's work for the future.

Murmurs has been in an uncertain, down-tempo state of its own for some time now; I have not frequented nearly as much as when I was essentially news editor on here for a few years in the mid-2000s, not until Collapse Into Now and, strangely, their retirement.

But the context has now shifted. What should a fan site do for amband that no longer exists in the present tense? My view is that it should be the ultimate index of the whole of that band's work, all open to community engagement.

Realising the band has stopped has thrown me in to a nostalgia. I fully respect band members' decision to move forward to new opportunities and hope we can all do the same. But I have also been moved to reflect on all the things associated with my experience of the band over the years - the people, places, moods. For example, fellow Murmursians helping me rediscover Timepiece and Rough Cut, one of which I had on VHS (two media format generations ago) this week has been a joy. I want to revel in these experiences *every* week.

There is so much material associated with the band from its long career, so many cultural objects and reference points still available for both discussion and for locking in to posterity. But I feel that, without an effort, much of this will be lost to me and to the world. This would be incongruous, since we live in a world of infinite storage space and in which everything is now in an online digital format, or could be.

I already feel like everything the R.E.M. mailing lists meant to me in the mid and late 90s is lost to me (perhaps the archive is hopefully still online). I fear that the band, what it has produced, what it means to us may be lost in time.

The correct shape for a fan site in this unusual context is not necessary to freeze its history, leave open one sub-forum for all recollections and put a news blog on top (though I absolutely still do want to stay in touch with every aspect of the band members' ongoing work).

I imagine the band now as a hierarchical tree, off which branch albums, songs, gigs, recordings of those gigs, TV appearances, interviews and more. Every node is populated fully, every object is dated for chronological access - and each is open to fans' own interactions.

The ultimate index of R.E.M.'s life work and, with it, our experience of it - content that, in turn, fuels our ongoing engagement with and appreciation of it together. I don't want to forget a single moment of R.EM.; I want to fix each of its steps and outputs in a time that I can call on when I choose, and discover steps along the chronological way that I never knew they took, I want to have the experience of rediscovering Rough Cut continuously, I want to find new material and facts that I never did consume, I want to read that interview Michael gave on such-and-suchna date in some place, then read the setlist they played later that night, then play the recording of that gig and see the fans' photos from it, then talk about it with you guys; I want to retrace their steps in this way and extensively fill out what I hope will be my ongoing appreciation of R.E.M.. It is a living history that renders the band's work never-to-be-forgotten and that allows us to go on interacting with each other.

This is what I want Murmurs to be - the place that tells me about band members' ongoing work and that super-serves my wish to consume and venerate R.E.M. all over again, in part by joining together all the material which already exists out there.

Should be eminently possible in this day and age. Look at how Songkick satisfies gig-goers with a well-stocked database of bands' entire gigography, available to share photos and memories of. Look at hoe music playback and social services leverage metadata to yield stories behind the music. There are many R.E.M. videos on YouTube, but none are effectively indexed. The ultimate R.E.M. fan site could assemble all this is a supremely meaningful way.

Murmurs' forums have long exhibited a degree of this hierarchicality. But the format now looks illl-suited. It is a loose hierarchy that depends on members' continuous interaction for its own volume. In the current context of the band (in which no new material can be talked about), it is likely new member interactions fall further. I don't want my rediscovery of Rough Cut left to serendipity because that serendipity is less likely to occur in future; I want to turn the pages of our R.E.M. book and, with you, be guaranteed to find the next step along their way, a manifestation of it I can consume, consider and contemplate with you. I cannot bear confining my reappreciation of R.E.M. to through my own small shoebox of magazine cuttings and VHS clips that have long been unplayable - I want all YOUR clips, too; I want all the videos and gig reports and news stories and more that comprise R.E.M. available on-demand.nsuch things can't be left to chance, not in a world that might forget R.E.M. or on a forum whose member base may dwindle and a site whose ontology is ill-suited to the permanent but wholly alive legacy I feel it is required to ensure.

I  am suggesting, therefore, that this impetus for consumption and engagement now become a rigid but rich hierarchy of nodes that, collectively, automatically represents as many parts of the band's work as possible. I feel this will help safeguard our community, our appreciation for the band and will cement its every step for appraisal in a living hall of fame.



Written on iPad - excuse typos.

[robertandrews]

When I think now about the lost potential value because, over the years, posts have not been tagged or given data fields to make them meaningful in this new context, it's scary. If only people had undertaken some engagement as data entry as well as just writing messy human prose.

[robertandrews]

Imagine if artist pages from a site like MySpace or even self-hosted sites were re-imagined to be the definitive story and resource of an act.

[robertandrews]

"All those moments will be lost in time... like tears... in rain..."

[fanfan]

This sounds like a great project, and I think many hands would be needed for such a venture (like a wikipedia kind of thing). If it's in the hands of just one person, it's more likely to fall asleep at some stage. Also, I guess many people would have stuff that they would like to share in this context.

[fanfan]

P.S. That means count me in (however, I'm busy but will have some time to spare for this).

[MurmursAdministrator]

I'm all for this project, and have even thought about how to do it.

But I can't be the one to shepherd it through. I just won't have time starting in about a week. I barely have enough time to even check the boards.

I'm all for this site continuing to exist, and will pay for its server indefinitely, but if someone or some people who have tech skills want to get together to take it over, I'm all for that. I'll still provide liaison between the band and the site and all that, but I can't be the sole proprietor.

I think this is a worthy effort and will support it the best I can.

[country feedback]

This sounds fantastic. I would love to see this brought to fruition, and no doubt it's presence would allow the band to live on and help gain new fans to appreciate their music long after they have disbanded. Who knows a sucessful project such as this if it had enough hits and traffic may even provide a format to encourage the band to reform for one-off gigs and to present new material if the desire ever took them. i.e. live web-casts etc...ok wishful thinking!
Anyway hope this project gets off the ground, unfortunately I don't think I could contribute much to it but I'd love to help make use of it!!

Here's hoping R.E.M's legacy goes from strength to strength over the coming years.

[stipeeyes]

Sounds like a great idea.

[dtram]

I love this idea as well.  I have large volume of R.E.M. of memorabilia, especially magazine articles, that i would be willing to photograph/scan and make part of the collection.  I have no code writing ability and no time run point on such a project but any way i can be utilized to contribute, i would be willing.

[Remixomatosys]

dtram, on 12 November 2011 - 05:10 AM, said:

I love this idea as well.  I have large volume of R.E.M. of memorabilia, especially magazine articles, that i would be willing to photograph/scan and make part of the collection.  I have no code writing ability and no time run point on such a project but any way i can be utilized to contribute, i would be willing.

Same here

[robertandrews]

Though the above is a vision statement, I suffer from the same lack of time, and have not undertaken development in some time.

But what was the technology platform/s you thought/think might support something like this?

[robertandrews]

I suspect the answer is Drupal :-/

[robertandrews]

Underpinned by an awesome database index, one feature I would have, to re-live the greatness every day, would be On This Day.

Theoretically, could even be fed out in to something like @RealTimeWWII tweets, as though it were happening right now.

[Sweden]

Ethan and I discussed this briefly on Monday, and mentioned a wiki structure as one possibility. I guess that or a very dynamic blog structure is the best. I kinda like the R.E.M.W.I.K.I. though... :-)

[Kimo]

Sweden, on 18 November 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

I kinda like the R.E.M.W.I.K.I. though... :-)

Sounds neat !

[robertandrews]

Wiki is rather flat and labour-intensive, no? I'm thinking a relational database in which contents are open to community discussion and population.
ie. The number of fields attributed to the "Harborcoat" asset, the number of conceivable ways in which to view it and contribute to it, would be quite large. 1984, Reckoning, musicians, lyrics, gig performances, chart positions, stories and band views, covers, recordings, videos, demos and precursor songs, which are themselves their own unique entities.

The R.E.M. Timeline site seems to have a pretty comprehensive list of gig and setlists, all against a chronological date, but it seems to be flat data. Much of it has found its way in to Songkick. The problem with Songkick is it in no way aggregates an R.E.M. audience (there are only 15 R.E.M. concert videos posted on there). But it has an API. The collection of R.E.M. sites, including the torrent sites for downloading gigs, is great, but everything is so disparate. I want everything to be accessible in one place, super-serving R.E.M. fans.

Ethan knows Drupal, I assume there are many Drupal modules which can go toward making something like this, if not out of the box to some extent.

[thomas08]

I've created a few websites which are online using drupal and vanilla2 forums. It's a really powerful CMS once you choose the right version and modules, and doesn't really require much programming/html coding skills. I think it would be a great platform to use for this project and it would be easy to teach any inexperienced members here how to use it. I'd be willing to help out

[twistedkite]

So now you guys tell me it won't shut down on Dec 31st! Sheesh.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I can help scan and upload too. I have a rather vast REM collection myself (although I have an idea it might not be as complete as Sweden's or bluemookie's...but who knows?).

Still--I'm a big fan and would love to see an index of sorts. A one-stop shop, if you will.
I don't check the site too often, so you guys might have to PM me if you need input/material/help.

Best.

[stipeeyes]

Sounds interesting.  Let me know if I can do anything to help.