27 replies to this topic

[Blackbirds Backwards]

Reading through some of the comments for WAGBTWWB, it's interesting to see a few debates as to whether the song sounds "quintessentially R.E.M." or not.

But what is "quintessentially R.E.M."?

Personally, from Pageant onwards I think the only thing you can really pinpoint as fitting that phrase is Michaels voice and a fondness for mid tempo tracks, such is the diversity of the music.  I honestly think if you took the uninitiated and played them the bands catalogue without any sort of vocals, they'd probably assume there was about 7 or 8 different bands on show.

So what is the benchmark sound that people refer to when making this claim?

The IRS years are the most consistent style-wise, displaying a coherent progression as opposed to change in terms of sound, but is it right that this would be considered the "typical" R.E.M. sound?  I mean, in terms of the length of the period, it barely equates to a quarter of their career (although output takes it up to a third of their career).  This period also ended 24 years ago.

We then have the early 90's/WB period up to Automatic.  Probably their most remembered period, but in terms of it being "Quintessentially R.E.M.", how can that judgement be made over such a short period of their career?  Particularly as OOT/Automatic sound so different musically.  

We then have Monster, which was *almost* as though the band pretended to be someone else for a few years (very successfully I might add). Surely that album cannot be considered "quintessentially R.E.M." in a musical sense?

New Adventures certainly shows coherence in terms of it seemingly drawing together the two extremes of Automatic and Monster, but as I don't believe either of those albums to be "quintessentially R.E.M."in the first place, how can New Adventures be?

Take away Michael from UP, and you have an album that doesn't on the whole really sound like anyone before or after.

Reveal takes a few cues from UP while still sounding completely different, but again is very unique in the bands catalogue.

ATS added to the equation, does serve in someway of bringing UP & Reveal together in a sort of (extremely) loose trilogy period musically, but begins to move away from lush production and electronica of the previous two albums.  Again, not a period I can imagine many would single out as being "quintessentially R.E.M.".

Accelerate's a strange one as it seems to be simultaneously lauded as R.E.M. going back to their roots, while rather paradoxically (certainly IMHO) sounding very little like their "roots".  

CiN seems to show the best snapshot of the most recognizable song styles throughout their first 20years, but that period being so diverse, it's still difficult to pick a quintessential musical style from it.

So what is is "quintessentially R.E.M.", and how can WAGBTWWB and the other two new songs be judged against it?

Is it Michaels voice/melodies/lyrics?

Is it a particular era, album or song?

A particular musical style?

Can it even be equated?

I personally don't think that WAGBTWWB sounds anything like R.E.M. musically, but then the problem is, I can apply that to most of their catalogue and the reality is I have no idea what I'm really judging against.

I'm confused

Any ideas?

[sashwap]

i think reckoning displays the archetypal r.e.m. sound best, but out of time perhaps set a new paradigm that they were forever since attempting to either emulate or avoid. so you have the jangly, urgent, mysterious beauty of reckoning and the rich, acoustic, lush melodies out of time. their biggest song perhaps possesses all these qualities, so i say "losing my religion" really is the quintessential r.e.m. song and helps define what is quintessentially their sound.

if i had to get more specific, i think the remarkable quality that made r.e.m. famous was the pure musicality of berry, buck, mills, and stipe, they way they could write these tight compositions with numerous interlocking melodies -- the bass lines dancing around the guitar lines! the simultaneous vocal tracks! even the drums were an equal, essential part of the whole. they could reconfigure these elements with different instruments and arrangements and still sound like r.e.m.

[Driver Nate]

If there's a common thread that runs through all of their music, it's the "folk/rock" style which is most present on the early albums but is also present on their latter days works such as Monster ("Strange Currencies"), New Adventures ("New Test Leper"), Up ("You're In the Air"), Reveal ("She Just Wants To Be"), Accelerate ("Until the Day Is Done") and Collapse Into Now. I also hear it in "We All Go Back To Where We Belong". What seems uncharacteristic of R.E.M. in that song is the brass. Their cover of "Out In the Country" also touched on much the same style.

[Geordie mad]

I think You can spot Peter's guitar playing style pretty easy as well. The best example for me is the cover of chris issaks wicked game. It just sounds so like an REM song. Same with dream no 9. I think It's the way they play or sing with their instruments that makes whatever they do quintessentially REM. I don't think theres many bands that you can say that about.

[Blackbirds Backwards]

Geordie mad, on 18 October 2011 - 07:30 AM, said:

I think You can spot Peter's guitar playing style pretty easy as well. The best example for me is the cover of chris issaks wicked game. It just sounds so like an REM song. Same with dream no 9. I think It's the way they play or sing with their instruments that makes whatever they do quintessentially REM. I don't think theres many bands that you can say that about.

I would agree that Pete's playing is pretty key, although it has to be said in terms of WAGBTWWB, it starts off with some very non-buck guitar playing in my opinion.

Alway's evolving, never given credit for it

[Driver Nate]

Blackbirds Backwards, on 18 October 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Alway's evolving, never given credit for it

Actually, they have. First, when they abandoned the "jangly" sound that had long been their trademark, then again around the time of Monster. I'm sure there's been other occasions but those two come immediately to mind.

[Blackbirds Backwards]

Driver Nate, on 18 October 2011 - 07:47 AM, said:

Actually, they have. First, when they abandoned the "jangly" sound that had long been their trademark, then again around the time of Monster. I'm sure there's been other occasions but those two come immediately to mind.

Fair point.  They never received fair dues for their "experimentation" from UP onwards though.  It's something I actually feel quite aggrieved about as a fan, in particular the plaudits Radiohead get for Kid A, even after citing up as an inspiration.

[Al_beer]

I think Geordie Mad has already touched on this but the times when REM sound most like themselves for me is when they're covering other people songs:

Wall of Death
Love Is All Around
Strange
Arms of Love
Wicked Game
Funtime
Lion Sleeps Tonight
Yellow River
Wichita Lineman
and even - I Will Survive

Despite those songs all sounding very different I think they sound immediately like REM as soon as I hear their versions.  Something that’s not always the case with their own music

[welliwonder]

Blackbirds Backwards, on 18 October 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

I would agree that Pete's playing is pretty key, although it has to be said in terms of WAGBTWWB, it starts off with some very non-buck guitar playing in my opinion.

Yes , although I stated elsewhere the  guitar was very Buck , actually its the guitar or baritone in the middle that sounds very Buck, the initial acoustic guitar doesn't really and could be Mills maybe.

I agree that WAGBTWWB sounds very much in the Wall of Death mode r.e.m.

Obviously in 31 yrs they've changed with the times , but most of their output has been melodic , guitar driven popsongs with instantly recogniseable vocals and catchy choruses. Also a common thread through a large chunk of their career is their love of the 3/4 waltz timing, which goes all the way from Swan Swan H , through Half a world away ,Try Not to Breathe and New Test Leper  ,and  right up to date on Oh My Heart .

[SweetMusic]

I've always thought that Mike's backing vocal was a signature R.E.M. quality. I missed it on ATS and can't remember it from Reveal or Up (was it on New Adventures?). So I was thrilled to hear it back again on 'Accelerate'.

In fact: that's what I miss in 'We all go back...'. I think his voice at the end might have lifted the final single to another level. We'll never know.

[vplus]

I'm pretty sure I recall Peter Buck once saying he thought of Man on the Moon as the quintessential R.E.M. song.  I bet there's somebody here who can fact check me on that?  I think it was a magazine interview some years back..

[TheMiddleDistance]

I think what R.E.M. is probably most recognized for is the jangly guitar and indistinct vocals. That's what got them started at least.

[Driver Nate]

TheMiddleDistance, on 18 October 2011 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think what R.E.M. is probably most recognized for is the jangly guitar and indistinct vocals. That's what got them started at least.

Perhaps but it's been my experience there's there's some folks out there who are familiar with R.E.M. yet they have no knowledge whatsoever of this era of R.E.M.  I first encountered them around the time of Green and Out of Time. Lots of people thought those were some of R.E.M.'s first records and were completely oblivious to the I.R.S. era.

[Blackbirds Backwards]

vplus, on 18 October 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I recall Peter Buck once saying he thought of Man on the Moon as the quintessential R.E.M. song.  I bet there's somebody here who can fact check me on that?  I think it was a magazine interview some years back..

I'm almost tempted to suggest End of the World as We know It would make a fine quintessential R.E.M. song.

[Blackbirds Backwards]

Driver Nate, on 18 October 2011 - 11:48 AM, said:

Perhaps but it's been my experience there's there's some folks out there who are familiar with R.E.M. yet they have no knowledge whatsoever of this era of R.E.M.  I first encountered them around the time of Green and Out of Time. Lots of people thought those were some of R.E.M.'s first records and were completely oblivious to the I.R.S. era.

I experienced that during the mid to late nineties.  A lot of my grunge mates got into them with Monster, and they were amazed when I produced some  pre-losing my religion R.E.M. albums.

As an aside, there's been another common mistake regarding R.E.M. that I've often encountered over the years.  It's amazing the amount of people that think shiny Happy People is a B52's song!  Anyone else hear that a lot?

[REMCHICAGOBOY]

I will never forget sitting in class in college, when someone played some new band's video on our TV that we used to review movies for one of our classes. I never got the name of the band that was being played that day, but someone in the class remarked, "They sound exactly like R.E.M...." The band had a guitar jangle, and the lead singer sang in a really low, somewhat sad vocal, to which most of the lyrics were mostly unrecognizable. Also, at the time, Out of Time was huge, with Losing My Religion being played constantly on MTV and the radio everywhere.

My point is I think when the general public thinks of R.E.M., they think of that guitar jangle and of vocals with a sadness to them.

I actually think New Test Leper is pretty "R.E.M." (and I might be right since they included it on '1982 - 2011' instead of E-Bow the Letter from NAIHF)

[petruchio]

Blackbirds Backwards, on 18 October 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

I experienced that during the mid to late nineties.  A lot of my grunge mates got into them with Monster, and they were amazed when I produced some  pre-losing my religion R.E.M. albums.

A man in a record store in Ottawa got mad at me when I said Automatic was their 8th record and he quite vociferously explained it was their 2nd, maybe third. I can remember standing down and saying, "you might be right" to avoid conflict.

[Driver Nate]

Blackbirds Backwards, on 18 October 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

I'm almost tempted to suggest End of the World as We know It would make a fine quintessential R.E.M. song.

I know what you mean but I think it owes too much to Bob Dylan to be considered quintessential R.E.M.

In regards to 'Losing My Religion', someone on another board said, "'Losing My Religion' is horrible and grates on my nerves as much as any Journey, Foreigner or Styx song, and the fact that it was by a band that meant so much to me, and had written such amazing songs like 'Catapult', 'Wolves Lower', 'Radio Free Europe' and others, was devastating." That comment took me completely by surprise. While I can certainly see where "Losing My Religion" would never be confused with any of the other songs mentioned I think all of the elements of R.E.M. were firmly in place in that song. I also didn't get the comparison to the the corporate rock bands mentioned in their post. If anything, R.E.M. stood out from them like a sore thumb, particularly with "Losing My Religion".

REMCHICAGOBOY, on 18 October 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

My point is I think when the general public thinks of R.E.M., they think of that guitar jangle and of vocals with a sadness to them.

I think the general public isn't even aware of that era of R.E.M. Judging from the responses I read online in the wake of their breakup, I also got the impression that a whole lot of people had no idea they were even still an active band.

[REMCHICAGOBOY]

Driver Nate, on 18 October 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think the general public isn't even aware of that era of R.E.M. Judging from the responses I read online in the wake of their breakup, I also got the impression that a whole lot of people had no idea they were even still an active band.

I agree completely that most of the general public didn't even realize they were still an active band. Hence why I truly believe they made the right decision to call it quits with the ending of their WB contract.

I actually wish more bands who have been around waaaaaay too long would do the same thing, and I'm starting to wonder if maybe R.E.M. will start a bit of a trend. I am seriously waiting to see if others "call it a day" as well in the next fews years.

(I know it's because of Kim and Thurston separating, but word is Sonic Youth are splitting...another band that 99% of the public either have never heard of or didn't know they were even still together...)

[Kelly A]

Blackbirds Backwards, on 18 October 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:

A particular musical style?

Minor key waltzes.  Duh.

Actually, I would hope they couldn't be defined by any single aspect of their music.