33 replies to this topic

[bluemookie]

Little America

I can't see myself at thirty, I don't buy a lacquered thirty
Caught like flies, preserved for tomorrow's jewelry, look it
Lighted in the amber your green shellback, green shellback
Preserved for tomorrow's eyes, in tree beer tar-black brer sap,

The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost

Who will tend the far museums?  Who will dust today's belongings?
Who will sweep the floors, hedging near the givens?
Rally round your leaders it's the mediator season
Cheyenne is on the beach, do you realize the life she's led?

The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, oh man I think we're lost
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
A matter of course, Jefferson, drive

Lighted in the amber your green shellback, green shellback
Sky-lied, sty-tied, Nero pie-tied, in a tree tar-black brer sap,
Reason has harnessed the tame, but logic not stop gators game
Another Greenville, another Magic Mart, Jeffers, grab your fiddle,

The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost, lost

[Sweden]

bluemookie, on 01 November 2011 - 05:15 AM, said:

(Don’t Go Back To) Rockville

Looking at your watch a third time waiting in the station for a bus
Going to a place that's far, so far away and if that's not enough
Going where nobody says hello, they don't talk to anybody they don't know

You'll wind up in some factory that's full time filth and nowhere left to go
Walk home to an empty house, sit around all by yourself
I know it might sound strange, but I believe
You'll be coming back before too long

Don't go back to Rockville
And waste another year

At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend
I don't care that  you're not here with me
Is it so much easier to handle
All my problems if I'm too far out to sea
But something better happen soon
Or it's gonna be too late to bring you back

Don't go back to Rockville
And waste another year

It's not as though I really need you
If you were here I'd only bleed you
But everybody else in town only wants to bring you down and
That's not how it ought to be

I know it might sound strange, but I believe
You'll be coming back before too long

Don't go back to Rockville
And waste another year

To my ears it's pretty obvious that it's:

"Looking at your watch a third time waiting in the station for THE bus
Going to a place, IT'S far, so far away and if that's not enough"

and
"CAUSE it's so much easier to handle"

And i'm pretty sure it's not

"All my problems if I'm too far out to sea"

...even though it sounds like it on the Olympia recording.

/D

[bluemookie]

I'll admit, I messed up on the "the" buss bit, but according to every version, including the Reckoning verison, the other 3 lines are dead on.  Listen to live versions from the early days.  Listen to the Reckoning rough mixes.  The vocals are 50% louder and no effects and you can clearly hear every nuance.

[Sweden]

bluemookie, on 01 November 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

I'll admit, I messed up on the "the" buss bit, but according to every version, including the Reckoning verison, the other 3 lines are dead on.  Listen to live versions from the early days.  Listen to the Reckoning rough mixes.  The vocals are 50% louder and no effects and you can clearly hear every nuance.

I'm sorry, but even on the regular Reckoning version it's pretty obvious it's "Going to a place, IT'S far, so far away and if that's not enough". That certainly is an "i", and there's no "th"-sound there.

As for "is/cause it so much easier", listen to the 2007 "R.E.M. Live" version - clearly "cause". Also not sure about how the "is" would make sense from a language point, turning the phrase into a question.

As for being "far out to sea", I agree it sounds somewhat like it on a few later live recordings, but I have no idea how that would really sense in the context, especially considering there are pretty basic Mike lyrics, from 1980...

Thiis all makes me question the accuracy of these proclaimed "accurate" lyrics you've posted here above, of course without me having gone through them all in detail...
Maybe these threads should be renamed or at least include some sort of disclaimers so they don't end up being google indexed as being anything else than (yet another set of) interpretations (albeit sometime aided by those lyrics sheets etc.) You have great intentions here, but...you know...

/David

[bluemookie]

Oh, no, you have it wrong on the "accurate" part.  I started off with Chronic Town as accurate, because I had an official lyric sheet.  It kinda blossomed from there.  I'm just looking for other people that might have lyrics sheets from concerts that could throw in anything they have that is official.  In general, the goal is to compile the most accurate set of lyrics possible by working on this together as a team.  "...if I'm too far out to sea" makes perfect sense to me, lyrically.  I never had a moments doubt on that line.  The difference between "it's" and "that's", and "is" vs "cause", again, are rather insignificant in the long run.  It's the other ones like "the animals are strange..." that I was hoping for more group participation.

Looking at the MTV Rockline acoustic performance, it shows Michaels lips, and it does appear to be "Going to a place, it's far".  In the second verse, it seems to be "Is it so much easier to handle"



The chances of R.E.M. going back and listening to their early works in order to transcribe the correct lyrics is probably never going to happen, so this is our best chance at a group collaborative effort, yes?

[Sweden]

bluemookie, on 01 November 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Looking at the MTV Rockline acoustic performance, it shows Michaels lips, and it does appear to be "Going to a place, it's far".  

Agreed, of course.

Quote

In the second verse, it seems to be "Is it so much easier to handle"

Are you serious? It's even more obvious there that it's a "cause"...   And again, how would the sentence work if you use an "if" and turn it it into a question?

And, "if I'm too far out to sea"...sure stuff might be easier if you're far out at sea (away from something). Not an obvious reference perhaps if you're a 22 year-old Mike in deep Georgia, hardly ever having lived on a shoreline, writing for a girl moving to Maryland, but let's overlook that if you want to. But could stuff indeed still be easier even if you are "too" far out to to sea? How? And "too far" in comparison to what? Doesn't make sense.

As for lyric sheets from concerts, from 2003 an onwards they've all been based on internet lyric databases anyway. Also for the earlier stuff. So, that's doesn't help much. Not sure if JMS ever tossed around lyric sheets in 86-89. In 1995 he did it occasionally I seem to remember.

/D

[bluemookie]

"Is it so much easier to handle all my problems if I'm too far out to sea"

I saw that as, out of sight, out of mind.  If she moved away, she could just write him off in her mind as lost at sea and not be concerned with a reunion.  Honestly, I don't analyze the content of the lyrics that much.  I just look for accuracy of enunciation.  The story and meaning are very secondary to me.  If I want lyrics that are elegant and thought provoking, Elvis Costello is my go-to guy.  Not that R.E.M. doesn't have their fair share of moving lyrics, I just never put too much stock in their meanings.

If you don't think this is the best stab at this lyrics, what is your suggestion?

[Sweden]

Not sure you can base writeups just on enounciation... Sure, we might be talking about JMS here (or actually Mike in this case) but some sort of actual sense is probably intended to be made with this particular song. As I explained, the "too far out at sea" line just doesn't make sense to me, especially the "too" part. When you say that "If she moved away, she could just write him off in her mind as lost at sea and not be concerned with a reunion", I don't get it. It's his problem the 'I' person is talking about, not the girl's.

My suggestion...well, I've provided some comments above. Apart from that, if I had the time to listen through everything I could probably come up with adjustments here and there. As mentioned, it's more the "accurate lyrics" that bothers me than anything else. Apart from certain CT and Murmur lyrics (where we of course on the other hand had issues with handwriting interpretation) these are just additional "lyric guesses" threads. Again, I appreciate your intentions and efforts, but it might be a bit unfortunate.

/D

[bluemookie]

Agreed.  The topic should be "as accurate as we can collectively get".  I just this these posts are as close as we'll ever get, and are much more accurate than the stuff that's been floating around on the net for the last 10 or 15 years.

[Sweden]

bluemookie, on 01 November 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Agreed.  The topic should be "as accurate as we can collectively get".  I just this these posts are as close as we'll ever get, and are much more accurate than the stuff that's been floating around on the net for the last 10 or 15 years.

I STRONGLY disagree with that conclusion. Again, I'm sorry but apart from CT these threads are little more that your guesses with some others pointing out obvious errors.

/D

[LST 390]

I really enjoy these threads and your efforts (and everyone who contributes), so I won't comment on the notion of using "Accurate" in the title (and knowing that fucking line is "C could stop stop it well read" makes me want to just give up altogether!). I really appreciate that you try to use various versions to compare, including visual cues. I admire the effort, and will try to quote any Stipe-sourced confirmed lyrics that I can along the way. I think the generally accepted existing lyrics on the Internet have poisoned fans (see "try to stick it in" "shield the hated heat" etc), which I know bluemookie will agree with. I see Sweden's point about bluntly stating these are more accurate than what's already established, but let's face it - the band is over, this is encouraging discussion, and given that it has been 15+ years since some of these lyrics were ever discussed online, I really don't see the problem in continuing, however it's labeled.

RE: Rockville - I admit I initially want to hear the line as "too far out to sea" but also consider that it could be "too far out to see". I always thought the full line was:

"At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend
I don't care that you're not here with me
Cuz it's so much easier to handle
All my problems if I'm too far out to see"

In other words, he's so drunk he can't see anymore. Pretty simple, and makes sense within the narrative. "Far out" = drunk/intoxicated. "Sea" could just as easily be a metaphor for the same thing, though.

[bluemookie]

Sweden, on 01 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

I STRONGLY disagree with that conclusion. Again, I'm sorry but apart from CT these threads are little more that your guesses with some others pointing out obvious errors.

/D

Most of the lyrics that I've posted, I've started with what's on the internet, then I listen to various versions and make changes.  Just about every song, with exception to some like Can't Get There From Here and Talk About The Passion, I've had to make changes, and I think the corrections I've made were, for the most part, better.  I don't claim to have a better ear for Michaels lyrics or anything.  It's just something I'm passionate about it.  I also know that I can't do this alone and that's why I'm posting the stuff here.  I used to have lyric sheets from Reckoning (3 different ones) when I was writing an article on R.E.M. back in '87.  I wrote or called Night Garden publishing and asked for any lyrics and they sent those three.  It was Little America, Hyena, and I think Pretty Persuasion.  They were typed and incomplete, but considering the source, I think they were genuine.  I'm just hoping that others out there might have something similar, like the Drive-In studio lyric sheet I posted here.  If now isn't the absolute best time to share this stuff, then when?

And LST, yeah, it could be "too far out to see".  To me, either one sounds alright.  Again, my though was that you would collect all the lyrics that we've discussed on these boards and assemble them to our own liking.  My collection would NEVER have "shield the hated heat" in a million years, but for people that insist that it's correct, can include that in their lyric collection.  I just want the early lyrics all in one place.

[Sweden]

Again, I'm not questioning your objectives here, and it's a great effort. But, you have presented the lyrics under something of a false flag. Not sure you being "passionate about it" provides for more "accurate" listening than what someone else did in 1987 or 1994 or 2002. You also have not being very open to others possibly having just as good ears (or being equally "passionate about it") as you, but have instead in several cases brushed of alternative suggestions, even when (again, at least to my ears) have been obviously incorrect. That's a shame, I think.

And to sum up, in many many cases we will never ever have "accurate" lyrics anyway, cause we will never agree. It will just the perogative of the person who decides to post the "final version".

/D

[bluemookie]

My main goal was not to provide my own "final" version.  I would post what I think are "close" and then we have our discussions and list alternates.  I believe that in the end, everyone will walk away with their own "final" version.  I have made corrections, numerous times, on the lyrics that I've posted due to the collaborative effort, including suggestions by you.  There will be instances where what I hear sounds better than the suggestions I hear, such as "the way to see, the way to eat".  Looking at videos that show his lips, I stand by my version.  Other times, I've been swayed.  I'm certainly not telling people that they're wrong, just that I disagree from time to time.  I'm not trying to be a dick or anything.  For me, this is fun.  I love dissecting lyrics.  As for the "accurate" part, if I could find a way to move these posts to "Pop Songs" and change the thread title to "Lyrics", I would.  My only hope was to get as accurate as possible, compared to what's been floating around out there.  I mean, just about every site out there still has "when we danced the dance until the menace got out".  I just think...well, I KNOW we can do better collectively.