64 replies to this topic

[rocket21]

Lori, on 23 May 2011 - 04:50 AM, said:

I watched them play those songs live on a screen, I can watch them play live over and over and whenever I want. I read 'live performance'

I don't think the released clips were even filmed in one take - there were some observations awhile ago that the audio wasn't matching the video (I believe there was an instance in which Mills is heard singing while his mouth was closed).

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

rocket21, on 23 May 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don't think the released clips were even filmed in one take - there were some observations awhile ago that the audio wasn't matching the video (I believe there was an instance in which Mills is heard singing while his mouth was closed).

Aah. That means nothing. The Mills is an awesome ventriloquist.

[fredrik]

rocket21, on 23 May 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don't think the released clips were even filmed in one take - there were some observations awhile ago that the audio wasn't matching the video (I believe there was an instance in which Mills is heard singing while his mouth was closed).

Of course, the audio might be live even if the video is patched together from multiple cameras. This might be done without regarding the actual timestamps, to get an artistically and esthetically (I'm lost for words) appealing video.
Try, instead, to listen closely to the total number of guitars and vocalists you hear. Any overdubs might deny the alleged liveness.

[Lori]

rocket21, on 23 May 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

there were some observations awhile ago that the audio wasn't matching the video

I've seen that happen sometimes on youtube, the audio and video go out of sync for some reason, some video technical fault I don't know much about.  Not sure if it was the case with these R.E.M. videos though.

rocket21 said:

(I believe there was an instance in which Mills is heard singing while his mouth was closed).

I saw Mike Mills pull away from the mic during Mine smells like Honey while he was singing his vocals, could not see what his mouth was doing though.  
It seems to me some here are experts on such things.  I have no idea how those videos were recorded.  I got no intention or care about winning an arguement just saying, to me those are live videos.

[fredrik]

Lori, on 24 May 2011 - 05:42 AM, said:

I saw Mike Mills pull away from the mic during Mine smells like Honey while he was singing his vocals, could not see what his mouth was doing though.  

THAT'S why I heard "Mine smell like hernia"!

[Sweden]

Lori, on 24 May 2011 - 05:42 AM, said:

I've seen that happen sometimes on youtube, the audio and video go out of sync for some reason, some video technical fault I don't know much about.  Not sure if it was the case with these R.E.M. videos though.

That's not the issue discussed here. The issue here is mainly that while one single audio take without overdubs (ie. just one instrument and voice per person seen playing in the video was recorded) may have been used, the video take does not match that audio take. The backing vocals are a bit different from what is shown in the videos, a cymbal is missing here and there and certain guitar figures simply do not match. I'm guessing each video take is from several different performances during that day (someone could check continuity in terms of the people sitting around watching) they used the audio from single performance.

[Lori]

Sweden, on 24 May 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

That's not the issue discussed here. The issue here is mainly that while one single audio take without overdubs (ie. just one instrument and voice per person seen playing in the video was recorded) may have been used, the video take does not match that audio take. The backing vocals are a bit different from what is shown in the videos, a cymbal is missing here and there and certain guitar figures simply do not match. I'm guessing each video take is from several different performances during that day (someone could check continuity in terms of the people sitting around watching) they used the audio from single performance.

Perhaps if you point out exactly where this is happening in those videos a dummy like me would know what you're talking about.

[Sweden]

Lori, on 25 May 2011 - 05:41 AM, said:

Perhaps if you point out exactly where this is happening in those videos a dummy like me would know what you're talking about.

It's been mentioned in a few threads I think, but from a quick look now:

MSLH - at 2:45 Mills does his ventriloquist backing vocals.

ATB - Crash cymbal being hit but not heard at around 0:42.

EDIYTW - at 0:35 the tambourine mounted on the hi-hat can be heard when played. At 1.15 it sounds silent when played. (Could be a latch lock/switch on the tambourine but I doubt it.)

Discoverer - Peter's chord changing looks out of synch around 1.10. It doesn't sound like he's playing syncopated there so it could either be a different take or just the video being slightly out of synch.

Some things can of course be edited out in mixing, but it would not really create any of the above issues.

/D

[Lori]

Sweden, on 25 May 2011 - 01:09 PM, said:

It's been mentioned in a few threads I think, but from a quick look now:


EDIYTW - at 0:35 the tambourine mounted on the hi-hat can be heard when played. At 1.15 it sounds silent when played. (Could be a latch lock/switch on the tambourine but I doubt it.)

/D

For starters, according to my ears and what I see in the video, the tambourine mounted on hi-hat starts at o:39 to be precise.  I can hear it faintly at exactly 1.15, maybe Rieflin was accenting the sound, playing a tad softer in parts?  I'm confident in what I'm saying here.

[Sweden]

Lori, on 26 May 2011 - 04:44 AM, said:

For starters, according to my ears and what I see in the video, the tambourine mounted on hi-hat starts at o:39 to be precise.  I can hear it faintly at exactly 1.15, maybe Rieflin was accenting the sound, playing a tad softer in parts?  I'm confident in what I'm saying here.

Well, confident is good, I guess.     
And yes, the tambourine is the least obvious issue of the ones I listed above. Do you have anything confident to say about the cymbal in ATB or the ventriloquist techniques of Mr. Mills?  

[Lori]

Sweden, on 26 May 2011 - 05:03 AM, said:

Well, confident is good, I guess.     
And yes, the tambourine is the least obvious issue of the ones I listed above. Do you have anything confident to say about the cymbal in ATB or the ventriloquist techniques of Mr. Mills?  

I already mentioned Mike Mills in Mine Smells Like Honey, couldn't not see what his mouth was doing but he did back away from the mic.  
I don't have a direct link to All The Best right now but I will definitely look closely at that one.  
This is so trivial geez.

[Driver Nate]

Is the editing that took place in these clips any different than the overdubbing that happens on live recordings? In the end the recordings are still live even if they have been doctored up a bit.

[Lori]

Sweden, on 26 May 2011 - 05:03 AM, said:

Do you have anything confident to say about the cymbal in ATB or the ventriloquist techniques of Mr. Mills?  

Bill Rieflin has several cymbals, one in front of his kit and a couple more on the side.  Which cymbal do you suspect him not hitting?

Does Scott McCaughy sing backing vocals on Mine Smells Like Honey?  He is definetly in the that room.

[Sweden]

Lori, on 26 May 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

Bill Rieflin has several cymbals, one in front of his kit and a couple more on the side.  Which cymbal do you suspect him not hitting?

Read my post again. Hitting but not heard. Main crash cymbal at 0:42.

Quote

Does Scott McCaughy sing backing vocals on Mine Smells Like Honey?  He is definetly in the that room.

He may do, but this is Mike's vocals continuing when he's not seen continuing singing.

Quote

  
This is so trivial geez.

Agreed. It was you who asked me for the specific examples though.

[Sweden]

Driver Nate, on 26 May 2011 - 05:28 AM, said:

Is the editing that took place in these clips any different than the overdubbing that happens on live recordings? In the end the recordings are still live even if they have been doctored up a bit.

Don't think R.E.M. has done much overdubbing on live recordings. Mixing away stuff like Bill's drums at the end of Cricus Envy on Olympia, and maybe, maybe patching together stuff from different takes (These Days on Olympia) yes...but no overdubs from what I know.

I do however agree that these (and Olympia) can certainly be considered live audio takes, even with the above mentioned fixing up or that they don't match the video takes used, like here.

/D

[Lori]

Sweden, on 26 May 2011 - 06:34 AM, said:

Read my post again. Hitting but not heard. Main crash cymbal at 0:42.

Th camera comes in late.  If you look again you'll see that cymbal moving as they do after a hit.

Quote

He may do, but this is Mike's vocals continuing when he's not seen continuing singing.

Agreed. It was you who asked me for the specific examples though.

Yes I did ask you for specific examples, they are so trivial as a reason to say these videos are not live videos.

[Sweden]

Lori, on 26 May 2011 - 07:42 AM, said:

Th camera comes in late.  If you look again you'll see that cymbal moving as they do after a hit.

It's actually at 0:44, the crash cymbal hit just after the third and final "fine". It could of course be the left overhead mic being cut way low in mixing just on the beat there, but that seems a bit odd to say the least.

Quote

Yes I did ask you for specific examples, they are so trivial as a reason to say these videos are not live videos.

I have never claimed there are not live videos, have I? It's all a matter of definition anyway. I have no opinion on the definition, I'm just pointing out perceived irregularities from a more technical point of view.

[zapiekanki]

"Judge not lest ye be judged"
Michael Stipe in New Test Lepper, 1996

[2headedcow]

zapiekanki, on 31 August 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

"Judge not lest ye be judged"
Michael Stipe in New Test Lepper, 1996

I thought that was a Jesus lyric.

[mtruslow]

The band should pack it in and do a bootleg series (like Dylan) of older shows........that would be a fitting legacy.