45 replies to this topic

[rosie]

for all we know the protagonist is a woman.
for me the song is about isolation...the line 'do you want to go with me tonight?' is an attempt to break out of this.
i really don't see the 'gay motif'.

[Saturn returned]

Sweet Fanny Addams, on 27 April 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

That's one hell of a leap. I know a lot of people who take pills with their breakfasts. Some are for blood pressure, for thyroid problems, depression, all manner of things.  I have no idea what kind of pills Michael is talking about and actually, neither do you. You've decided  that because he is a gay man, this is a gay song which inevitably leads into HIV infection and AIDS.  That is a terrible message and I don't believe Michael Stipe would make that leap, let alone put it in a song full of poppy hooks.
Uberlin might have a gay theme. It equally may not. Even if it does, which is pure speculation, why would there be an automatic link to being on anti HIV pills? HIV virus does not discriminate. Straight people get it. You seem to be dwelling in the past where gay=AIDS. I disagree. Science disagrees.
There is no shame in having HIV or in taking appropriate medication, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Michael Stipe  for years has had to deal with false reports that he has AIDS because he is a gay man and is skinny. I can only begin to imagine the tedium of dealing with that kind of reactionary thinking which is borne out of ignorance.
Why would he put it in a jolly up tempo song? That does not compute.

I only floated it as a possibility and not as an absolute statement. I decided this was a gay song from the line "Hey man do you want to go with me tonight?'. HIV is still predominantly a disease of gay people in the Western world. Of course in the 3rd world this is not the case however in this case the man appears to be a native of Berlin. In any event you surely must concede that the inclusion of the act of someone taking pills may well imply an illness of some sort? In which case whether it is HIV or depression it amounts to the same. Why does the fact that it may be HIV bother you so much?

[Saturn returned]

rosie, on 27 April 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

for all we know the protagonist is a woman.
for me the song is about isolation...the line 'do you want to go with me tonight?' is an attempt to break out of this.
i really don't see the 'gay motif'.

Thats true however the line "comb your hair" suggests its a male protagonist.
So for me it is gay....and thats OK.
I agree re- the isolation motif.

[RamblingRob]

oobel, on 27 April 2011 - 09:18 AM, said:

Thats true however the line "comb your hair" suggests its a male protagonist.
So for me it is gay....and thats OK.
I agree re- the isolation motif.

I never realized females didn't comb their hair...

[Kimo]

Mick Jagger would not agree.

"She comes in colours everywhere, she combs her hair... she's like a rainbow". (No pun intended, I swear).

[Saturn returned]

RamblingRob, on 27 April 2011 - 09:25 AM, said:

I never realized females didn't comb their hair...

They tend to 'brush' it!

[Saturn returned]

rosie, on 27 April 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

for all we know the protagonist is a woman.
for me the song is about isolation...the line 'do you want to go with me tonight?' is an attempt to break out of this.
i really don't see the 'gay motif'.

Also beginning each of the opening lines with 'Hey man...' does not fit well with a female protagonist.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

oobel, on 27 April 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I only floated it as a possibility and not as an absolute statement. I decided this was a gay song from the line "Hey man do you want to go with me tonight?'. HIV is still predominantly a disease of gay people in the Western world. Of course in the 3rd world this is not the case however in this case the man appears to be a native of Berlin. In any event you surely must concede that the inclusion of the act of someone taking pills may well imply an illness of some sort? In which case whether it is HIV or depression it amounts to the same. Why does the fact that it may be HIV bother you so much?

It doesn't bother me in and of itself. It bothers me that from your perspective HIV is the same medical condition as depression, only limited to homosexual men (except for  Africa).
Actually, you've contradicted yourself. Vitamins. Not just for  sick people.

[Saturn returned]

Sweet Fanny Addams, on 27 April 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

It doesn't bother me in and of itself. It bothers me that from your perspective HIV is the same medical condition as depression, only limited to homosexual men (except for  Africa).
Actually, you've contradicted yourself. Vitamins. Not just for  sick people.

The 'HIV pills' comment was only stated as a possibility and is not homophobic in the slightest. I have personally treated many gay men for all sorts of ailments. If the man in the song were sick it would fit with the fact that he is in some sort of trouble. Thank you very much for completely bending my statements. I did not state anywhere that only gay men get this disease in the West.... just that it is more of a gay disease in the 'white' West. Take a look at the statistics. Your ludicrous statement that I was implied that only gay men get depression does not even bear me defending.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

oobel, on 27 April 2011 - 11:24 AM, said:

The 'HIV pills' comment was only stated as a possibility and is not homophobic in the slightest. I have personally treated many gay men for all sorts of ailments. If the man in the song were sick it would fit with the fact that he is in some sort of trouble. Thank you very much for completely bending my statements. I did not state anywhere that only gay men get this disease in the West.... just that it is more of a gay disease in the 'white' West. Take a look at the statistics. Your ludicrous statement that I was implied that only gay men get depression does not even bear me defending.

Actually, if you go back you will see what I said was that YOU appeared to single gay men out as needing HIV meds, which could easily be taken as homophobic. It was also you who equated depression with HIV  in this thread.  You have personally treated many gay men for all sorts of ailments?  Wow,  this is fascinating.  Are you a doctor? Please elaborate.

[Saturn returned]

Sweet Fanny Addams, on 27 April 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

Actually, if you go back you will see what I said was that YOU appeared to single gay men out as needing HIV meds, which could easily be taken as homophobic. It was also you who equated depression with HIV  in this thread.  You have personally treated many gay men for all sorts of ailments?  Wow,  this is fascinating.  Are you a doctor? Please elaborate.

Yes, I am a doctor and have many gay patients. I also treated many hundereds of impoverished Africans in Zululand, South Africa with HIV disease.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

oobel, on 27 April 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

Yes, I am a doctor and have many gay patients. I also treated many hundereds of impoverished Africans in Zululand, South Africa with HIV disease.

I'm a doctor, too. So which combination of HIV meds do you find are most effective in the treatment of HIV infection in Zululand?

[Saturn returned]

Sweet Fanny Addams, on 27 April 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

I'm a doctor, too. So which combination of HIV meds do you find are most effective in the treatment of HIV infection in Zululand?

I take it you are questioning my credentials. I am currently a cardiac electrophysiologist in Texas. Thus I don't currently treat HIV disease, although as stated I do have a lot of gay patients. I am from SA originally but spent 14 years training in the UK. I last worked in SA early in the days of HIV in that part of the world, in fact the epidemic had only just hit SA (1990) and a lot of our treatment was palliative and responding to secondary illnesses associated with the disease such as pneumocystis, Kaposis, and of course TB.

I do not wish to argue with you. I have read many of your comments on other topics and have found them to be incisive and eloquent. I remain convinced that there is a good possibility that Stipe is referring to HIV meds in the song Uberlin, although I know that vitamins or some other pill for some ailment or other are a possibility too. If he is talking about HIV meds, I applaud him (...well I pretty much applaud him for most things he does!).

[molinatobars]

I definetly didn't want this to turn into such a heated and misguided discussion about gays and HIV. Wow.

But, the thing is I don't think the theme of being isolated/bored doesn't exactly preclude the song also dealing with cruising as a way of connecting with someone else, sexually, socially.

Of course you are walking around, lost in your routine and of course you take your pills (vitamins, viagra, whatever) and yet you can still go on and finish your night with some mindless sex. That was my line of thinking, not that the WHOLE song is narrating a cruising episode.

It's just that in this particular isolation, sex might be an escape, a way to deal with your loneliness in a big, unknown city.

[robbbin]

Uberlin, now thats a good video and a lovely piece of music.

I thought it was about someone staying in Berlin at someones place. A big strange city experience. Then it goes all classic Stipe and rambles incoherently so that you can make of it what you will.

Perhaps its more oohh Berlin than Uberlin.

It could be a relationship song, as 9/10 songs can be interpreted but I wonder if MS was not a Homosexual, would the inference "gay cruising" have ever entered anyones mind? To me "........do you want to go with me tonight." is just s simple hey watcha doing line.

Maybe we should beat up the gay theme, be good publicity, make it a gay anthem?

I think if it was about cruising, cruisers would have caught onto it by now, there would be Uberlin Tshirts in the bushes everywhere.

Geeze, the pills reference never entered my head as Viagra. I thought it was just a description of someones morning routine. Do gay men actually get up and take viagra and comb their hair and go cruising? is that what work is in this case? I dont think so.

To truly understand this song, you have to work out what person its in, 1st, 2nd, 3rd? all three? Its possible to work out when its "I" as he says it. I think "hey now take your.." is someone else then it goes into first person. Then it can change depending on your mood, perhaps its all in the third person.

Is it a classic Stipe dream sequence in his oft reported futuristic wasteland? After all he sings "my imagination run away" so is the song just a dream? he is flying in the stars after all.

Whatever it is, its Stipe at his best. Its the lyrics that kept us all listening in the first place. He can still do it and the boys can still set it to music so beautifully that you would have never guessed it possible.

Im very confident that this song will take out best song on the album in the survivor forum.

BTW can someone tell me why Murmurs spell checker does not like Stipe?

[Scootre]

OK so Uberlin is about gay cruising.  So what is Discoverer about?  What happens later??

[molinatobars]

Discoverer is about discovering fisting, of course.


That just the slightest bit of finesse
Might have made a little less mess

[Milsean Cady]

Ugh. That'd be funny if it wasn't so gross.

As far as the "Hey man," I think Stipe had to put a word there so it wasn't "Hey, you," because that sounds like he/the protagonist is addressing a complete stranger, so "hey, man," fills the two syllable space needed. Sounds more or less like meeting a friend/co-worker/acquaintance in the street and wondering if instead of just breaking off and going home and doing nothing, maybe the two could find something fun to do. Which could be anything. It seems to me that often Stipe lyrics, once illuminated by the man himself, tend to be less complicated than what fans ascribe.

[1two3four5]

i never thought of this song that way, and i'm gay. could be, but i don't see it. to me it's more about loneliness than cruising.

[molinatobars]

Maybe it's because when I was in Berlin I discovered that it is a very "cruisy" city, and when I heard that line I remembered those special times <3