111 replies to this topic

[iskra]

Just to add to my original post, a big reason why both CIN is showing some signs of strains for me comes down to the lyrics. It was the same thing with Accelerate, but I cut the band some slack because I thought it was just part of the album's concept. CIN is considerably better musically, but the lyrics still don't give me much to sink my teeth into. I get the theme of this album. I get that its intended to be a collage of elements from the past, a postmodern mock-up of the band's back catalog. I think that much is pretty clever, but I can't think of one line in particular that gets stuck in my head due to its loveliness or ambiguity aside from a few gems thrown down in Blue.

There isn't one song that I could write more than a paragraph about. I'm sure Stipe could talk on end about what the songs are about, but for the rest of us, there isn't much there to piece together anything. A lot of that just comes down to word count. This probably makes sense given Stipe's claim that the lyrics were written using an iphone. I agree that sometimes less is more when it comes to songwriting, but sometimes less is less, too. As long-winded as ATS was, it was the lyrics that kept me coming back, probably a lot longer than most fans did. Even the band's most hated material was often redeemable in my mind because of the lyrics. Even the borderline nonsense lyrics of the earlier albums help give the songs legs to stand on. I get something new out of them each time. I can't say I've been getting anything new out CIN.

I'm sure other people will find their own reasons to keep listening (or stop listening) to CIN, but those are some of mine.

[Milsean Cady]

The lyrics are a big deal to me too. I want to make that clear. But I'm over hoping that Stipe will write the way he used to. People change, styles change, intentions and motivations change, so I'll just roll with the punches.

[RamblingRob]

I am one those that prefers the music over quality lyrics.  I know some of the lyics are sophomoric, but REM has 15 albums under their sleeve and there is a lot of word repition in their catalogue (star(s), (un)afraid, hey now, etc.) so they are bound to cover some of the same ground.  Similarly, they have used a lot of English words that are rarely  used  (coriander, catalpa tree, etc.,  and it would be difficult weaving them into new songs.  But, for me, it is mostly about the music.

Regading CiN.  Like it.  It is a very good album.  I think that Radiohead's new one, The King of Limbs, is better and was released about the same time, which is bad timing for REM.

[remalba]

Milsean Cady, on 05 April 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

The lyrics are a big deal to me too. I want to make that clear. But I'm over hoping that Stipe will write the way he used to. People change, styles change, intentions and motivations change, so I'll just roll with the punches.

So is there agreement that the lyrics are terrible?

Perhaps folk enjoy the cheesy cliqued lyrics?


Uberlin is often compaired to Drive.  Both are great songs.  

Lets compare others.

Oh my heart, Mine smell like honey, Aligator, all the best.   OR  Everybody hurts, Find the river, Monty, Man on the moon, Nightswimming, Sidewinder.

[patternshirt170]

I missed the standard promo;

It probably hurt it a bit, but it's what they wanted, but y'know the usual TV/radio shows and sort of 'united front' style presentation has left people with little to discuss beyond the films and some interviews...

I like the album alot sans ATB and although I like Blue as a song, it's just too derivative in parts to represent a new album for my taste.. I suppose I'm beginning to get irked with the last 2 out of 3 album cycle delving into this almost sorta "self reference", ie. feeling gravity's pull, a high speed train, pure electron blue, and now the 20th century collapse into now or go to sleep, ir. the Blue/CF/Belong hybrid... good songs but ultimately can end up as fodder for the lazy critics who suggest "time gentlemen please"...

Also, personally as a sad and nerdy collector I missed the single, not that iTunes 1 song 'radio single' thing... I understand the CD single might be RIP, but I mean... no 7", digital EP outside Germany and Ireland was really disappointing.. and I agree totally we got too much of it in dribs and drabs over almost 4months...  Discoverer and IHT would have been fine AND closer to the March release, then UBerlin as a single with extras with MSLH in the US/Ca, and I think because of this, some of the wind got somewhat taken from the sails in the process, with 6/12 songs heard and digested before the release date, CIN almost became an EP...

I didn't really like the running order the band chose and began playing around with it, such as playlists allow, moving Discoverer from the opening number and instead starting the record with ITH then that song, OMH, UBerlin, ED, WIB, Honey, AAAA, MB and ending on That Someone... 35mins and it clicks...

oh and I still think we'll get some live work before 2012 though... hunch, nowt else

[Driver Nate]

It's funny to see people complain about how they think the album references so many past records yet there was an entire thread bitching about how critics had done the exact same thing.

As for 7" singles, there will be three from the album released for Record Store Day on April 16th:

[zapiekanki]

A few days ago I wanted to ask the site's administrator whether he had noticed some slump in traffic (after the excitement of a release date had waned). I just didn't ask because I thought it wasn't very relevant, secondly, it seemed to me like some sort of a natural cycle where this site's traffic (and any other R.E.M. related site) fluctuates according to major events (like a new album release) thus traffic will hike in periods of major events, drop in regular days.

On a different topic, I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one dissatisfied with this album's lyrics and I am not the only one who may prefer Accelerate over Collapse into Now. I made a personal connection with so many of Accelerate's songs, music and lyrics (Supernatural, Hollow Man, Submarine, Until the Day) that unfortunately I cannot say the same of this Collapse into Now. I haven't even decided what's my favourite song on Collapse (All the Best maybe?) and the more I listen to Collapse into Now the more I realise how much I appreciate other albums that I despised on first listen (Up, Accelerate and Around the Sun).

In other words, the appearance of Collapse into Now, and its twelve songs, has increased my appreciation of other albums (Accelerate, Up, Around the Sun, New Adventures). For instance, now I am in a position to say: Daysleeper over UBerlin, Houston over Oh my Heart!, Supernatural Superserious over Mine smell like Honey, Sing for the Submarine on a par with Walk Unafraid, Until the Day is Done over Walk it Back or Everyday is Yours to Win... Et cetera.    

[remalba]

What is clear is that Micheal is writing like a man that is lacking ideas.  

WALK IT BACK- lets be honest doesn't need the line walk it back several times

EDIYTW-  Nice first verse then stipe loses interest.

MSLH- Its not funny or clever its just plain stupid and terrible.  Cringe.

AAAA- ho, hum.

[fairytale]

I was listening to CIN on a long car journey today. Just as I was passing by my old hometown where I grew up Walk It Back came on and I found myself in tears. Time cannot abide, indeed.

To me it's all about the wholeness of the music experience: I'm either touched by it or not. And I'm touched by CIN.

[Milsean Cady]

remalba, on 05 April 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

So is there agreement that the lyrics are terrible?

No, not terrible. Just different, and not my style.

[MurmursAdministrator]

remalba, on 05 April 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

What is clear is that Micheal is writing like a man that is lacking ideas.  

WALK IT BACK- lets be honest doesn't need the line walk it back several times

EDIYTW-  Nice first verse then stipe loses interest.

MSLH- Its not funny or clever its just plain stupid and terrible.  Cringe.

AAAA- ho, hum.

I'm glad you know Michael so well.

[chrome3d]

I understand why the lyrics are printed on the booklet. there has to be some value for money when you buy the CD. I think that with CIN Stipe has gone to a direction where the lyrics could be left out of the booklet. I think that is a good thing.

[collapse into now]

Driver Nate, on 05 April 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

It's funny to see people complain about how they think the album references so many past records yet there was an entire thread bitching about how critics had done the exact same thing.

As for 7" singles, there will be three from the album released for Record Store Day on April 16th:

Let's hope some copies make it outside of the US. I got the blue chronic town vinyl release on eBay which was the only way for me to get it posted to Australia. Paid overs for it. I expect the same for Three.

[C.A.]

iskra, on 05 April 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

I'm sure Stipe could talk on end about what the songs are about, but for the rest of us, there isn't much there to piece together anything. A lot of that just comes down to word count. This probably makes sense given Stipe's claim that the lyrics were written using an iphone.

The impression I get from a number of the songs is that the lyrics were composed as Tweets - I hadn't picked up Stipe's claim.  Even considering the possibility that he thinks we know him so well that we will extrapolate his meaning from brevity, I'm just not connecting with it.

[dan]

I haven't listened to it completely for a couple of weeks now. It just doesnt have the depth to make me keep going back to it. It sounds like good REM, but there's something missing. Its like 'REM lite'. I think its the lyrics and the lazy choruses.

I have it on a playlist on the iphone in the car together with Radiohead, Arcade Fire, Mumford and Sons, Noah & the Whale, Frank Turner and Elbow and it sits just fine on shuffle with them. I enjoy most of the songs when they come on. However, I'm not sure how long it will keep its place?

[CONNMAN]

I completely overplayed Accelerate when I bought it and got sick of it very quickly. Not making the same mistake with Collapse. Think its a much better record anyway and im still really enjoying it.

[xumiking]

I personally feel that, if there is any sense of the album wearing off, it really doesn't have anything to do with the album itself at all. I am sure that, in this day and age, the same would happen to some of the other great albums which, retrospectively, seems to have lived longer.

As I said in an earlier post, one explanation has to do with the way we process information. Things are coming to us, in short snippets, we consume them, and let them go. Nothing sticks (a tweet, a Facebook update, a Youtube video, a Podcast, RSS feed..).

With music, the fact that new stuff can be heard at more frequent intervals, and that we are now reached by material coming from bands who would not have had any chance of reaching us in the near past, accelerates this fact. Personal opinion of course.

Looked at in this way, REM have a 'first mover' advantage - which will keep them amongst the greats forever. It will be very difficult for modern bands (let alone albums) to live that long.

Fact remains though, that Collapse Into Now is a very good record, far better than a lot of rubbish we are being exposed to lately. And the lyrics are not as bad as some of us may have said, at least on second read.

[wagtail]

xumiking, on 06 April 2011 - 02:14 AM, said:

I personally feel that, if there is any sense of the album wearing off, it really doesn't have anything to do with the album itself at all. I am sure that, in this day and age, the same would happen to some of the other great albums which, retrospectively, seems to have lived longer.

As I said in an earlier post, one explanation has to do with the way we process information. Things are coming to us, in short snippets, we consume them, and let them go. Nothing sticks (a tweet, a Facebook update, a Youtube video, a Podcast, RSS feed..).

I pretty much agree with what you've said here xumiking.  I think there may even be something in the way that this album was approached as a concept that addresses that too.

I don't really relate to anything that has been said in this thread so far.  I think Stipe particularly has pushed himself into new territory with this album, and I really admire it because I think he's rather deliberately gone outside of his comfort zone.  I really didn't like the last album at all, but on this one I find quite a lot of depth, it's just present in a different way.  I don't think the album is mind-blowingly brilliant - I think musical self-referencing is a little too cute at times - but I think it's a much more thoughtful and rewarding album than the last one, and a better album than the one before that.

[funkyratchet]

Alright...long-time listener, first-time caller here.  Every time the band releases an album, I usually just listen until I reach my saturation point.  That's it.  If my enjoyment warrants repeated listening for weeks rather than days, excellent.  If I feel like I've heard it enough after a couple of listens, fine - I move on to something else that I will enjoy more and come back to REM whenever I feel like it.  Knowing how greatly I have changed over the course of the past ten, twenty, or thirty years, I can only imagine how many changes three (four) other people who are members of the same band have undergone in that time.  Their habits, tendencies, opinions, preferences - most, if not all, of these things may be nothing like they were fifteen or twenty years ago.  It stands to reason that the music they make will not be same either.

What is really astounding to me is the amount of negativity here.  If you are no longer enjoying the music this band puts out, why spend time typing to convey that sentiment to others?  You could be listening to some other band that is currently making music that truly thrills you, involving yourself in the boards on their website,  and having discussions you enjoy about music you enjoy.  If you enjoy past REM albums, treasure them.  If you don't like the new album, no problem.  Try it again in a month or two.  Or wait for the next album and see what you think.  Or don't.  Continue to treasure the albums you love, and search for that band that will be the soundtrack to the next stage in your life.

[Milsean Cady]

funkyratchet, on 06 April 2011 - 08:18 AM, said:

Alright...long-time listener, first-time caller here.  Every time the band releases an album, I usually just listen until I reach my saturation point.  That's it.  If my enjoyment warrants repeated listening for weeks rather than days, excellent.  If I feel like I've heard it enough after a couple of listens, fine - I move on to something else that I will enjoy more and come back to REM whenever I feel like it.  Knowing how greatly I have changed over the course of the past ten, twenty, or thirty years, I can only imagine how many changes three (four) other people who are members of the same band have undergone in that time.  Their habits, tendencies, opinions, preferences - most, if not all, of these things may be nothing like they were fifteen or twenty years ago.  It stands to reason that the music they make will not be same either.

What is really astounding to me is the amount of negativity here.  If you are no longer enjoying the music this band puts out, why spend time typing to convey that sentiment to others?  You could be listening to some other band that is currently making music that truly thrills you, involving yourself in the boards on their website,  and having discussions you enjoy about music you enjoy.  If you enjoy past REM albums, treasure them.  If you don't like the new album, no problem.  Try it again in a month or two.  Or wait for the next album and see what you think.  Or don't.  Continue to treasure the albums you love, and search for that band that will be the soundtrack to the next stage in your life.

I like this post, but I want to reply to this portion in particular.
I think plenty of people are doing the latter part: involving themselves in music that is thrilling. But I'm assuming most people here are not casual R.E.M. fans, but rather fervent ones. They've grown up with the band, or at least, grown into the band in such a fashion that they are moved by them. Once an emotional connection like that evolves, there are expectations and hopes that follow. If people here have expressed negative reactions, it's because they love the band and want them to continue making music that thrills them. It's very hard to just quietly say "I'm not that fond of it" and move on, or to outright ignore it, because there is emotional investment. Say your significant other, with whom you felt you had a really good thing going; perhaps they were "the one," decided to up and leave you, or had a change of heart that you found hard to reconcile with. Would it be more satisfying to simply say, "She's gone. Well, onto another woman,"  or, to talk to others who knew her, loved her, and try to figure out if there is still a chance, what went wrong, was it you, was it her? Can we still be friends? Because after all, there was so much potential, and, well, she still calls from time to time.

What I'm trying to say is that misery loves company, damnit.

I'm pleased with the new album and still love R.E.M. But not unconditionally. When they have missteps, I like to discuss them with other fans. When they have triumphs, I like to discuss those too. If all this board was was a bunch of people going, "Omigod this album is so gooooooood" it would get old, fast.


This is my opinon. Take it or leave it.