24 replies to this topic

[Remixomatosys]

The album opens with a grower: “Discoverer”. The intro and the verses are very good, but the bridge and the chorus are fine examples of a tendency soon to be found again later in the album: laziness. With just a little longer time spent on this album, R.E.M. could have made a better record. Sadly this is, I think, the fans’ fault (“Around the sun” bashing): the “so short you don’t even have to care about” approach, which especially Peter Buck seems to take very seriously, is not  exactly translating in the immediacy of a band eager to put out new music, but, instead, at least to me, in a fear that the band is in a rush to go somewhere else, doing something else. Production on this one is good, though, and it helps the song a lot. “All the best” is a good song, in which Mike Mills does a great job, and the verse is probably better than the chorus. It tries to keep the momentum builded by “Discoverer”, and it succeeds.
“Uberlin” is a beautiful, malichonic and simple song, one of the things that R.E.M. do best: this song is no exception, and it seems to please the European audience, so good choice for a single (but one or two b-sides is too much to ask ?). “Oh my heart” and “It happened today” are among the best songs on the record. Again, the production helps them a lot. The former has a great guitar riff, and, listening to the accordion part, you can understand why Scott McCaughey gets a writing credit for this one (without his contribution, the song would have been more flat). The latter is, to my ears one of the standout tracks: there’s no problem with the long coda, it could go on forever (in this song, production is typical Jacknife Lee: a crescendo). It’s absolutely perfect, even if it has a very simple structure (it could be the joyous brother of Uberlin).
Then comes “Everyday is yours to win”: laziness is the word that comes to mind. The first thing you hear is an actual intro (the first one on the album, “Discoverer” excepted); then it  goes on in the verse; then you suddenly realize that it will go on during the whole song… You would at least expect something good lyrically; instead, you get this chorus: <<Hey yeah, I know>>. It’s not that the chorus is lame, It’s just that this is not a chorus (no pun intended). Mills described it as “a beautiful song built around a guitar riff”. Well, the guitar riff is certainly there (and it’s all over the place), but what I miss is the beautiful song.
“Mine smell like honey” is one of the best songs on the record: the band evidently spent much more time on this one, and the result is: great lyrics, great great chorus, bridge and song structure in general. The only “problem” could be the middle 8, which someone finds too simple. I don’t see it as a big issue, anyway. Right choice for a first single in the US (but one or two b-sides is too much to ask ?).
“Walk it back” is just too simple. Laziness is the word that comes to mind again. But I reckon this song, unlike “Every day is yours to win”, has got the potential to grow on me. I’ll give it some more time. How on earth this could be the best song on the record (which is what many fans seem to believe), though, is beyond me (and probably I’m wrong. As I said, I have faith this will grow on me).
“Alligator_aviator_autopilot_antimatter” is a strong contender for the “best song on the record” title: it is short and concise, but it has all the elements of a great song, including an actual intro, a good chorus, and even a solo by Lenny Kaye (a 20 seconds longer solo wouldn’t hurt, though). Peter and Peaches shine on this one. Very good.
Listening to this album is like being on a rollercoaster, and that’s great. Many of the previous R.E.M. albums lacked this variety. “That someone is you” is fun but it’s too short. It’s a shame that the band thinks that a 2 minutes song is per se better than a 4-5 minutes one. It’s been even trimmed down a minute or more: it’s a pity. A potentially good song ruined, one more time, by laziness.
I like “Me, Marlon Brando, Marlon Brando and I”, especially the minor key chorus. Lyrically, it works very well (especially the subtle Neil Young reference).
“Blue” has been seen as one of the most beautiful songs on the record, and compared to other glorious R.E.M. songs, which I won’t even cite. This song, far from being “beautiful”, or “experimental”, is just another example of laziness. Again, a song without one of the elements of a song (in this case, the melody) is just not a song. Sorry. Damn laziness.
Overall, Collapse Into now, is an album that show the best and the worst of R.E.M., with some great songs, and many potentially good songs ruined by laziness (sorry to repeat myself). Being sick and tired of the “best in more than a decade” comments, I won’t go that far.  I give it a 6.5/10. This is, of course, just my personal opinion.

[peterjones]

It's spelt 'laziness'.

[Remixomatosys]

peterjones, on 11 March 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

It's spelt 'laziness'.

thanks. I'll edit the post

[king.of.comedy]

Remixomatosys, on 11 March 2011 - 03:45 AM, said:

“Blue” has been seen as one of the most beautiful songs on the record, and compared to other glorious R.E.M. songs, which I won’t even cite. This song, far from being “beautiful”, or “experimental”, is just another example of lazyness. Again, a song without one of the elements of a song (in this case, the melody) is just not a song. Sorry. Damn laziness.

I agree...

[ebowtheloser]

Lazy.

Unbelievable.

I really think it's arrogant to level a charge like that at a group with a body of work like R.E.M.'s when you were not privy to the creative process.

[Fatherjohn]

Lazy? I'd say CIN is by far the least lazy effort in many years. With my engineer ears glued on I can hear an LP which has been exhaustively tracked and mixed with a keen eye on detail and craft. Anything but lazy.

Accelerate on the other hand, now that was lazy...

[Remixomatosys]

ebowtheloser, on 11 March 2011 - 06:32 AM, said:

Lazy.

Unbelievable.

I really think it's arrogant to level a charge like that at a group with a body of work like R.E.M.'s when you were not privy to the creative process.

It's not arrogance. It's just my personal problem with some of the songs on the record. I'm not leveling a charge at anyone, I enjoy the record,
but that's the impression I occasionally get from listening to it (I made clear that it's just a personal opinion). Believe it or not

[Remixomatosys]

Fatherjohn, on 11 March 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

Lazy? I'd say CIN is by far the least lazy effort in many years. With my engineer ears glued on I can hear an LP which has been exhaustively tracked and mixed with a keen eye on detail and craft. Anything but lazy.

Accelerate on the other hand, now that was lazy...

I don't refer to mixing, and I think Jacknife Lee and his team did a great job. I refer to (some of) the songs.
Songs like "Houston" would probably be stronger with one more verse or a bridge. It's the same sense of "incompleteness"
I get when I listen to "That someone is you". Nontheless, I like both songs

[dtram]

Just because a song is shorter than maybe you'd like doesn't mean they are being lazy.  I'm not sure why you say that, do you think they just felt, fuck it, lets not write another verse and go get a beer?

I think they took a lot of the criticism of their post Berry work to heart, songs were too long, they smothered them etc. and on the last 2 records they became much more judicious and decided that they'd rather err on the side of making a song a minute too short than a minute too long.  Why take 4 minutes to say something when you feel you've said it in 2?  I also think part of the change was to have a set time to make a record and just do it instead of the Reveal/ATS model of, lets take as much time as we need.  People tend work better under deadline; again, this is not being lazy, this is a method to make the best records they can.

You are perfectly within your right no to like that and wish the songs were longer, but to call them lazy I think is grossly innaccurate.

I think these guys care a great deal about what they put out and their legacy and have never made a record in a half-assed way.  Obviously some records have been made under better circumstances than others but I think they have tried to make the best record they can, each time out.  They havent always succeeded but they try.

[Remixomatosys]

dtram, on 11 March 2011 - 07:43 AM, said:

I think they took a lot of the criticism of their post Berry work to heart, songs were too long, they smothered them etc. and on the last 2 records they became much more judicious and decided that they'd rather err on the side of making a song a minute too short than a minute too long.  Why take 4 minutes to say something when you feel you've said it in 2?  I also think part of the change was to have a set time to make a record and just do it instead of the Reveal/ATS model of, lets take as much time as we need.  People tend work better under deadline; again, this is not being lazy, this is a method to make the best records they can.

You are perfectly within your right no to like that and wish the songs were longer, but to call them lazy I think is grossly innaccurate.

The long, early version of Imitation of life (to be found on the "advance 2001" promo) was reduced of a minute or so.
The song, which is one of my absolute favourites, is now perfect in its 3:56 minutes. With Imitation of life, I think, they were judicious.
Now take a song like Walk it back: how much effort must Michael Stipe have put in writing the lyrics ?
Laziness in the songwriting process seems to me, as I said, the result of the Around the sun bashing by the fans. The band seems to be convinced,
in some cases (the review is very positive for a large amount of songs - all the best, uberlin, oh my heart, it happened today, mine smell like honey, alligator,
marlon brando -) that spending little time on a song (in the writing process) will certainly produce something good.

[dtram]

Not trying to be a dick but unless you took part in the sessions, there is no way for you to know how much time they put in the song writing process.

And as for Stipe's lyrics, go back to the IRS years and see how many times the third verse was a repeat of the 1st.  If you call him lazy now, it's nothing new.

[chrome3d]

There was too much laziness and other similar adjectives. Still I thought that the idea to review the album without references to older albums is a good one. It would be better if there was more reviews without the history parts because we all know the albums by now. Sometimes I just want to say dooooh! when somebody goes on blathering about his trip to kindergarten/mall/first date with Out Of Time in the Walkman or something and then fails to say anything about the new album. There is too much of that with REM. Can´t escape it. Sadly, you technically failed there, because an older album (ATS) was clearly mentioned.

Also, laziness doesn´t equal crap to me. Music needs some space and room for the listener too.

[Remixomatosys]

dtram, on 11 March 2011 - 08:21 AM, said:

Not trying to be a dick but unless you took part in the sessions, there is no way for you to know how much time they put in the song writing process.

And as for Stipe's lyrics, go back to the IRS years and see how many times the third verse was a repeat of the 1st.  If you call him lazy now, it's nothing new.

He can repeat a great 1st verse many times, and it won't affect the song.
Sure, I don't know how much time was spent in writing the songs. That's why I said it is just my impression.
What do you think about the lyrics and musical structure of Everyday is yours to win and walk it back ?

[dtram]

Remixomatosys, on 11 March 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

What do you think about the lyrics and musical structure of Everyday is yours to win and walk it back ?

EDIYTW is the one song I have some trouble with.  Musically, I like it a lot but I don't dig the lyrics.  I think I give JMS more rope than some on his lyrics but this one just isn't resonating with me.  He just sounds too much like a self help guru to my taste.  Maybe they can release an isntrumental verison and I can slot that in instead.

I like Walk it Back a lot.  Took a few listens but really dig it.

I did want to comment on your opionion that Blue has no melody but didn't want to seem like i am picking on you.  I think there is a ton of melody there, just not out of the lead vocal.

[Remixomatosys]

dtram, on 11 March 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

I did want to comment on your opionion that Blue has no melody but didn't want to seem like i am picking on you.  I think there is a ton of melody there, just not out of the lead vocal.

I posted the review here to discuss with all of you, so it's fine if you disagree. Blue seems to be many fans' favourite off the new album

[hikerdeb]

I really appreciate that you made the effort to write a review without referencing previous albums. I'm sick and tired of reviews that are basically a list of "Track 1 sounds like Song X, and Track 2 reminds me of Song Y." I wish I could wipe clean the memories of all the music critics, so they would be unable to compare new R.E.M. albums to ones they've heard before. In your review, you keep mentioning laziness. Well, what's really lazy is reviewers who don't know how to evaluate a song on its own merits, so all they do is scroll through the R.E.M. catalog until they find a past song that they think it sounds like. Thank you for not doing that.

Oh, by the way, I don't agree with everything in your review, but I do agree with you about "Blue." It's an interesting sound experiment, but to call it a song is a stretch. (Just like "Airportman" is not really a song.)

[Maarten_E]

Can I give my opinion too?
I think it's not lazy at all, maybe a different approach, but certainly not lazy. It's seems more refined then Accelerate and Around The Sun, not that that were bad albums, but is seems to me (especially Accelerate) it was made a bit too quick. That was the purpose of Accelerate (short, accessable, sharp), but maybe a bit too short.


Bit short review but this is what I think.(just bought it an hour ago (I already had it on Spotify, so I heard it for 2-3 days.
Discoverer: Good song, good opener, but seems to lose it's strengh after a while.

All the Best: Mwah, seems an ordinary R.E.M. song, but I'm not sure about the intro.

Überlin: One word comes in my head: Drive pt. 2, in a positieve way. The backing vocals are good, and the guitar sound really comfy, I don't know why. Nice tribute to the capital of Germany

Oh My Heart: Don't like it, seems to me liuke Houston pt. 2 (it's meant to be, it's too far away from the original Houston, it's too slow in my opinion.

It Happened Today: One of the songs that pulls the entire album up, in my opinion. Love the lyrics, vocals and instruments. A song doesn't have to be difficult to be good.

Everyday is Yours To Win: Don't know what's meant to be. The song doesn't seem to have any joy whatsoever, don't really like it.

Mine Smell Like Honey: Beautiful song, love the guitar in the background (Rick 330/360?), like the backing vocals and especially Michael voice in the chorus (Drag a Trall of Honey Through it All). Really good song.

Walk it Back: It sounds like a childsong to me?   Sounds not like R.E.M. and it's too different of the other songs, like Überlin and Oh My Heart.

Alligator_Aviator_Autopilot_Antimatter (good lord, how to make a long title...): I really like Peaches in this song (Who is Peaches BTW?) Am I saying somthing strange if I say here voice reminds me a little bit of Kate Piersons? Love the instruments ans vocals.

That Someone Is You: Sounds very R.E.M.: Very uplifting song, it's perfect for when you're having a bad mood, like it, but it take a while to like it.

Me, Marlan Brando, Marlan Brando and I: Hmm, reminds me of Strange Currencies in a odd way, (the songs don't share anything, but to me it reminds me a lot.) Song that has to grow, but it's a good 2.00 AM song, I think.

Blue: I don't understand why it could be a bad song. Brought me to tears, love this. By far the best song of the record I think. Yeah, it's experimental. It reminds me of Country Feedback, loved that song for a long time (anyone knows the John Frusciante cover of Country Feedback? ) Love Blue. The re-use of Discoverer is a bit cheap,but it suits.

[lordweary]

Rather than "lazy," you could have said "underdeveloped" and avoided some of the criticisms people have made against you here.  "Everday is Yours to Win" apparently took a lot of effort--fine.  I agree that it remains underdeveloped.  Maybe they couldn't have gotten more out of it with more work, but it still doesn't feel like a very complete song.  It's a wonderful ditty--but remains a ditty.  I have to disagree about "Walk it Back" though.  The lyrics are understated, not underdeveloped--they manage to be accusatory and self-accusatory, nostalgic and pained, and the vocal delivery matches perfectly: introverted, ruminative, a storm of feelings in a teacup of a song.

[mrpoopypants]

Alot of people have slammed you here...but I *get* what you are saying.

I LIKE this album...I enjoy every song on this album except "Walk It Back" which is not my cup of tea at all...

But while I find this a great album, I've thought it could have been BEYOND great - IF they'd done a few nice bridges...a catchy guitar solo or two (see One I love. Stand...but the only solo could be mustered by someone other than Pete) A creative intro or two... a bridge ala Driver 8...

I really enjoy this album...and while most find it a stretch to say best since New Adventures...NAIHF felt incomplete to me. So it's my fave since Monster.

With just a little bit MORE of finesse...could have have made a little better CD

[2headedcow]

REM I love your new record.  If this record was a debut release from a new band it would be hailed as a triumph but because we've had 30 something years of your amazing music we all expect perfection and seem to focus on what we see as floors in your art.  The floors are most definitely the exception rather than the rule.  Keep playing and producing your music and your videos the way you want it to sound and look.

Please keep marching to the beat of your own drum REM.