101 replies to this topic

[wagtail]

Yeah, I understand that.  Again sorry for derailing it, and sorry if what I said was insensitive to their personal circumstances.

[AgainstAllOdds]

This must be very difficult situation for the family.

Are there practical ways we could help the family? Sheila mentioned that Chris has the family pc at university. Would he be better with a laptop, releasing the family pc for the family? Could we raise money for this?

It must be tough with only one income now, could we raise money for food shopping and arrange to have a weekly deliver?

[DrinkTheElixir]

Julie, I think the idea of raising money for a laptop or netbook is a great idea.  The netbook is really coming down in price right now and I think raising cash for that is completely doable if we all get together on this.  I am sure that Tim could use one right now.

[robbbin]

Julia is in Jail, bereft of what we say no matter the intention.

As Kipling said:


IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Trust me, above all else, I will not let you down Julia.

[trix]

As the first article points out, simply having a criminal conviction has far reaching consequences. 12 months seems very harsh.

My strongest memory of Julia on murmurs was her story about quitting smoking when her twins were born--clearly she has put them first from day 1.
Thoughts and prayers to Julia and her family.

[Tortoise]

Woah there!!Robbbin, while I appreciate your anger and frustration I really don't think it's appropriate to hire a QC without discussing it with the family.

I agree with eberything that Grace has said here. No-one was there in those mad 20 minutes that led to Julia's situation. I suspect that few of us in this forum have ever reached the depths of despair that Julia had reached. We simply can only guess at what our reaction would be when our beautiful daughter was going out to buy heroin from a dealer. And remember she told her mother she was selling her body for these drugs. She had already sold the family jewellery and stolen money from her parents bank account. Not because she was an evil girl, but the horrific effects of the drugs pushed her to these extremes.

We also have to remember that the dealer guy is still out there, still selling drugs to young people and ruining other families' happiness and futures. There are dozens more like him in every city in the UK, every country in the western world.The article I posted earlier was so true and articulate in highlighting that this case goes beyond the Sakers'. There is little or no support for the families of drug users. God knows how many familes are going through the same scenario right now. Tabby came from a very "normal" family of civil servants, Ford cars, pets and where the importance of a good education was instilled from an early age. It is so easy for young adults to be vulnerable and susceptible to peer pressure and try things that deep down they know they shouldn't. I thank my lucky stars, not my own ability as a parent, that my own 3 children have avoided any serious drug problem.

So I think we need to get back on track and think of what we can do practically to help Julia and Tim. Julie's idea of raising money for a PC is a kind one, sending Julia postal orders to buy phone time is another crucial one. at this point my computing skills and unfortuately time restraints get the better of me. Maybe we could simply set up a new thread " Support for Julia" on the love and life forum and messages of support could be left there.

I'd like to thank everyone for their support here, you've done Julia proud. Especially Grace who has shown a wonderful sense of understanding and compassion, and robert Andrews who has some great ideas that I shall put to Tim. If theres one thing for sure it's that Julia will not come out of this quietly and we can look forward to hearing all about it! Just a shame there's not going to be any queues this year to hear it!

[mrocks7]

Dark and devastating. What a tragedy. Prayers and hope for all involved.

[In the Corner]

The more I have thought about Julia's situation, the more distressed I have become, primarily because of the statement from the judge:  
Judge Adele Williams told them: “You both detained a young woman who was subjected to violence and humiliation."

Tabitha suffered "humiliation" at the hands of her mother for twenty minutes.  Julia had already suffered the humiliation of having her precious child in the grip of a demon, stealing from the family and pawning their belongings. Now she's supposed to be subjected to humiliation for the next 12 months.   It seems that maybe Judge Adele Williams needs to be locked up for subjecting Julia to "violence and humiliation."

No, not really.  But it just seems so unfair.

[In the Corner]

 thorn plucker, on 30 January 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

I have a feeling that Julia would be willing to do double/triple the time if, as a result, her daughter stopped using drugs.  ....Get it together Tabitha.

My thoughts exactly.  Of course she would.

[Harshil]

My deepest and most sincere condolences. We've never met, but i really hope you can stay strong. I've lived in a household with a drug-user and i can relate with that feeling of hopelessness and responsibility. The sentence is clearly unfair, my thoughts are with you and your family.

Yours,
Harshil.

[fanfan]

 In the Corner, on 30 January 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

The more I have thought about Julia's situation, the more distressed I have become, primarily because of the statement from the judge:  
Judge Adele Williams told them: “You both detained a young woman who was subjected to violence and humiliation."

Tabitha suffered "humiliation" at the hands of her mother for twenty minutes.  Julia had already suffered the humiliation of having her precious child in the grip of a demon, stealing from the family and pawning their belongings. Now she's supposed to be subjected to humiliation for the next 12 months.   It seems that maybe Judge Adele Williams needs to be locked up for subjecting Julia to "violence and humiliation."

No, not really.  But it just seems so unfair.

Lucy, it seems so unfair to me, too.

In Germany where I live any criminal who can claim they had an unhappy childhood gets a sentence on probation (I'm clearly exaggerating but that's the general tone). Here in Julia's case a mom who is trying to help her daughter is sent to prison? for 12 months? What was this judge Adele Williams thinking? Julia certainly didn't do the right thing (because, as stipeeyes and wagtails rightly put it, the drug addicted daughter needs to want to quit herself), but Julia was in a very upsetting and stressful situation and probably felt quite helpless as well.

I hope this will somehow turn out well for her.

[She just wants to be anny]

 AgainstAllOdds, on 30 January 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

This must be very difficult situation for the family.

Are there practical ways we could help the family? Sheila mentioned that Chris has the family pc at university. Would he be better with a laptop, releasing the family pc for the family? Could we raise money for this?

It must be tough with only one income now, could we raise money for food shopping and arrange to have a weekly deliver?

I think that's a great idea and was just wondering, is there some clever person who could set up a paypal account or some such where people could give as and when they can. Otherwise, can anyone let me know where we should send donations?

Thanks, Ann

[Maybelline Eyes]

It's so long since i logged in i couldn't! The Forgotten Password thing didn't work.
Just wanted to wish Julia and her family all the best. I agree with Andrea, it wasn't an ideal thing to do, but how desperate must Julia have been to do that? It doesn't bear thinking about. It's one of those things to which you just don't know how you'd react.
Here's hoping that next time we meet in an r.e.m. queue somewhere, this whole nightmare will all be behind them. Surely there'll be an appeal?
Sheila i'll pm you (hope your box isn't too overloaded)
Laura xx

[stipeeyes]

We really need to be realistic here.  Is there a price to bail Julia out or was she already sentenced to the 12 months?  Can she appeal?  It sounds to me like Julia needs a very convincing lawyer to get her out of that jail.  I mean to me Community service and counseling should have been the only punishment in this case.  

I wonder why her daughter started taking drugs. I hope nothing tragic happened to her in the past to make her go to drugs. A lot of people who are addicted have went through some terrible hardships and don't know how to deal.    

(The truth of the matter is, that none of us know what it is like to live day by day with someone so hopelessly addicted to drugs.)

I don't know if a lot of people who are posting in this specific thread or on this board have had to deal with living with a drug addict or not. I hope not because its nothing but stressful and sometimes these people can be very abusive, in many ways. But in general many people deal with this everyday.  Drug addiction sadly is a very common problem.  And if its not drugs its alcohol.  And Alcoholics can at times be even worse than a drug addict.  I know what this is like.  I've had no choice as a child in the pass to live with my Mother and her abusive drunken, junkie boyfriend. He would shoot up right in the bathroom which you had to go through my bedroom to get to.  Her boyfriend abused me in ways I can't even say on this board, we were both beaten by him.  It was a living hell. Of course my not so bright Mother stayed with him for years and years. I had to go through this for years until I could finally move out on my own. My mother now unfortunately lives with me.  It was either that or she would have been homeless. She's lucky she isn't to tell you the truth.  I've also had to deal with my Brother and his issues with drugs too.  Because of his desperate attempt to get drugs when he was younger he actually stole from us so much that we had no choice but to kick him out of the house.  

With all that I can say I do understand why Julia lost her cool and did what she did.

I really do hope she can get out of this mess soon and that her family can eventually heal from all this.

[Crystal Eagle]

I think this case has shown what a mess our legal system is in. In the past few days a judge was complaning that guidelines meant he couldn't jail a persistant burglar, with hundreds of previous convictions.

As for the length of the sentence handed out to JUlia, nobody, it seems, serves the full time (with the exception of a few life meaning life sentences - usually multiple murderers), often you hear of people getting a 'life' sentance but they can be released after a few years.

It just seems so wrong when you hear some of the things people do and they aren't jailed.

[In the Corner]

 Crystal Eagle, on 01 February 2011 - 09:11 AM, said:

It just seems so wrong when you hear some of the things people do and they aren't jailed.

Exactly!  

[Josey Wales]

That is terrible news. I've had several dealings with Julia a few years ago when we used to trade recordings of R.E.M. shows.

From reading the report it seems that she was only trying to help her daughter. It is a disgrace that the authorities have failed on this occasion as the punishment far outweighs the crime.

[Tortoise]

 In the Corner, on 30 January 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

The more I have thought about Julia's situation, the more distressed I have become, primarily because of the statement from the judge:  
Judge Adele Williams told them: “You both detained a young woman who was subjected to violence and humiliation."

Tabitha suffered "humiliation" at the hands of her mother for twenty minutes.  Julia had already suffered the humiliation of having her precious child in the grip of a demon, stealing from the family and pawning their belongings. Now she's supposed to be subjected to humiliation for the next 12 months.   It seems that maybe Judge Adele Williams needs to be locked up for subjecting Julia to "violence and humiliation."

No, not really.  But it just seems so unfair.

Lucy, that was the bit that bothered me too. Surely there can be few things more humiliating  than heroin addiction and the other crimes it may lead to. Did this judge really miss that?

[DrinkTheElixir]

I have heard from Julia - apparently there is going to be an appeal.  Lots of positive vibes for Julia and her family. Rooting for you!! xx

[Lori]

 DrinkTheElixir, on 03 February 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

I have heard from Julia - apparently there is going to be an appeal.  Lots of positive vibes for Julia and her family. Rooting for you!! xx

This is wonderful news.