101 replies to this topic

[eiluvrem]

I do hope she has an opportunity to appeal. Perhaps one of the newspapers who have reported the story might help with this?
I had a rant with a lawyer friend last night - she was really surprised that Julia was not given a suspended sentence.
Tim, we are all thinking of you and Julia as you go through this.
Eileen

[Stoffel]

oh wow, this is just so sad and unbelievable. i met Julia only once at the rock werchter festival with her entire family
they all seemed such nice people and super friendly. hope somehow this will be overruled or that she will be released early, cause this is just insane. anything we can do for her, cause i cant sign the petition?

[Lori]

I didn't know her that well but I feel for Julia, I have a teenage daughter myself, she's generally a good kid but sometimes has an attitude that is often very difficult to deal with. What do you do when they don't listen? Trying to deal with a child with a drug addiction would be even worse and extremely mentally tormenting.  I surprised the courts were so harsh given the circumstances.  
I hope Julia and her family gets a better outcome to all this.

[afte4hou4s]

it is crucial, imo, that the people of kent do not let this news fade away. call the news/ commentary radio shows and express your concerns about the decision. let julia's good standing in the community be known. write/email the newspapers . demand the opinion and action of local politicians.
free julia!

[In the Corner]

I haven't visited Murmurs in a few weeks but was made aware of Julia's situation by some others.  I am shocked and saddened.  Based on the facts as we know them, a 12-month sentence seems quite harsh.  I'm not sure I would have gone to the extreme of tieing up my child, but I can well imagine doing something similar in an attempt to protect her.  

Being the parent of a troubled young adult "child" is one of the hardest situations, because you want sooo much to help but you are very restricted in what you can do. My heart goes out to Julia and her family.

[robbbin]

"It looks to me like everyone posting here cares. So I'm not sure why that comment was made. Ethan and R.E.M. really cannot do nothing about this. Why would anyone think they could?"

Bullshit!

All it takes is enough money for a decent solicitor to lodge an appeal and have Julia released pending that appeal. If REM could contact, say Geoffrey Robinson and simply say "get her out, send the bill" she would be out before you could say ten thousand pounds. The publicity generated by the likes of Robinson would, alone, change Julias situation.

I honestly believe Ethan is the link to REM and if REM knew of this travesty, they would gladly pay for a decent solicitor.

I apologise if I offended anyone, but it really is just a case of money in this instance, to have this terrible sentence overruled on appeal.

I will try to contact Geoffrey myself and see if anything can be done, he does a lot of pro bono work and he is, after all an aussie that hates injustice.

I am mad and Im not going to give up. Im fucking fired up now and if it takes my savings to get her out, then so be it.

[robbbin]

Fuck it all and fuck everything, Ive contacted Doughty Chambers and Geoffrey Robinson Q.C. to take on Julias case at my expense. I will pay them back for the rest of my life if thats what it takes for this injustice to be reversed. Under UK law, as in Australia, a Barrister cannot refuse a case if he is free to deal with it, so I think we will be in business.

But please keep up your protests and support.

http://www.doughtyst...obertson_qc.cfm

We are going to win this and get Julia out!

[wagtail]

robbbin, on 29 January 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

"It looks to me like everyone posting here cares. So I'm not sure why that comment was made. Ethan and R.E.M. really cannot do nothing about this. Why would anyone think they could?"

Bullshit!

All it takes is enough money for a decent solicitor to lodge an appeal and have Julia released pending that appeal. If REM could contact, say Geoffrey Robinson and simply say "get her out, send the bill" she would be out before you could say ten thousand pounds. The publicity generated by the likes of Robinson would, alone, change Julias situation.

I honestly believe Ethan is the link to REM and if REM knew of this travesty, they would gladly pay for a decent solicitor.

I apologise if I offended anyone, but it really is just a case of money in this instance, to have this terrible sentence overruled on appeal.

I will try to contact Geoffrey myself and see if anything can be done, he does a lot of pro bono work and he is, after all an aussie that hates injustice.

I am mad and Im not going to give up. Im fucking fired up now and if it takes my savings to get her out, then so be it.

You really think you can buy someone's freedom?  How is that just?

I felt quite conflicted reading the various news items about this.  On the one hand having been around people who have addictions, I feel empathy for what Julia endured and can understand that perhaps another person initiated a course of action that very quickly escalated into something that does sound extremely serious and extremely violent.  

I think Julia's sentence is severe, but having read the number of comments on newspaper sites where people say that under the same circumstances they would do the same thing, I find it  disturbing how easily people justify this course of actions to themselves.  Tying someone up, putting a belt around their neck, stuffing a sock in their mouth, and jumping on them whilst threatening further violence is not okay - not for a drug user, not for anyone.  

Some human rights should be universal, it's a pretty slippery slope when you start suggesting that people have a right to freedom, except when they are a drug user - I mean, where does it go next?

[robbbin]

Freedom is bought every day in this world, the law is not about justice. He who has the best lawyer wins.

Ever heard of a bloke called O.J. Simpson?

Anyways Im gettin Julia out, and who the fuck are you to judge?

[2headedcow]

robbbin, on 29 January 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

"It looks to me like everyone posting here cares. So I'm not sure why that comment was made. Ethan and R.E.M. really cannot do nothing about this. Why would anyone think they could?"

Bullshit!

All it takes is enough money for a decent solicitor to lodge an appeal and have Julia released pending that appeal. If REM could contact, say Geoffrey Robinson and simply say "get her out, send the bill" she would be out before you could say ten thousand pounds. The publicity generated by the likes of Robinson would, alone, change Julias situation.

I honestly believe Ethan is the link to REM and if REM knew of this travesty, they would gladly pay for a decent solicitor.

I apologise if I offended anyone, but it really is just a case of money in this instance, to have this terrible sentence overruled on appeal.

I will try to contact Geoffrey myself and see if anything can be done, he does a lot of pro bono work and he is, after all an aussie that hates injustice.

I am mad and Im not going to give up. Im fucking fired up now and if it takes my savings to get her out, then so be it.

I admire your passion!
  I think you mean Geoffrey Robertson not Robinson.

It would be awesome if a member of the REM camp was reading this thread and decided to fork out cash, but I certainly wouldn't expect them to.  With respect to Julia there are  thousands of cases of injustice around the world
everyday.  Where would they (REM) draw the line in who to help and who not to help.

I sincerely hope that the 'powers that be' see reason and let Julia and the young man out of prison far earlier than their sentence.

[robbbin]

You are correct, sorry for my typo.

You cant take it with you.

[wagtail]

robbbin, on 29 January 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

Freedom is bought every day in this world, the law is not about justice. He who has the best lawyer wins.

Ever heard of a bloke called O.J. Simpson?

Anyways Im gettin Julia out, and who the fuck are you to judge?

It would be inappropriate to get into an argument on this thread, but just to clarify - I haven't judged you, or anyone else.

I think  Murmurs being a place that Julia can return to, and not feel judged is  extremely important, I hope she returns sooner rather than later.  

I said I thought the sentence is severe, but just wanted to offer some thoughts on why the judge in this case may have deemed a custodial sentence appropriate.

Your hyperbole is a tad over the top.

[robbbin]

Wagtail, you know its not about that.

[wagtail]

robbbin, on 30 January 2011 - 12:01 AM, said:

Wagtail, you know its not about that.

then tone it down, and talk to people in a more inclusive way.  don't cry bullshit at people, this is more important than that, right?  this isn't the green light room.

2headedcow, on 29 January 2011 - 11:50 PM, said:

I sincerely hope that the 'powers that be' see reason and let Julia and the young man out of prison far earlier than their sentence.

The young man should be serving a longer sentence, his actions were despicable.

[robbbin]

OH fuck me, I am in the wrong room?

[wagtail]

robbbin, on 30 January 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

OH fuck me, I am in the wrong room?

I'm saying that I don't think your over the top tone is all that helpful in this case, and since my tolerance for that is reasonably high, then maybe others find it even less helpful.  Like I said, this is important, you act like your trying to turn it into a stoush - shouting bullshit at people.  

Stipeeyes made some good points, particularly in regards to how futile it is to try and force drug users to change.

[DrinkTheElixir]

I really would hate this thread to turn into a slanging match.  It really isn't helping anyone.

I think that it is really easy to sit back and wonder what we would have done and be shocked at the actions of others. The truth of the matter is, that none of us know what it is like to live day by day with someone so hopelessly addicted to drugs.  To have someone change into a person that we don't recognise and end up being so devious and desperate in order to get what they want.  This is every minute of every day for God knows how long. The system has failed Tabby - it has failed Julia - it has failed her entire family.  They had sought help and were turned away.  This wasn't the first step of trying to save their daughter, it was the last desperate attempt.  Nobody knows what that is like, unless you are there, in that moment and desperate to save your baby.  And that is what Tabby is - Julia's baby.  If you have someone lie beneath your heart for nine months then there is nothing on this planet that would stop you from trying to save them, even if that means saving them from themselves.  In the heat and passion of that moment it was a desperate choice between the actions that they tookand allowing Tabby to go out and kill herself with the help of some disgusting drug dealer. Because effectively, that is what was happening.

It isn't about justification, it is about understanding the passion and intention. The sentencing is wrong. Julia isn't a danger to the wider public and yet she is in a prison which is high security and holds some of the most notorious criminals in this country.  Aside from the sentence and location being disproportionate to the crime - this is costing the tax payer and the country a stupid amount of money, when Julia could be in an open prison serving out her sentence.

Would I have done what Julia has done? You know what? I don't know. I have no clue - but as a mother I feel the sense of urgency and the split second decisions made out of desperation. She was trying to save her child the only way she felt that she could right at that moment.  Right now, her husband is there trying to manage the situation with their daughter on his own.  The entire situation compounded because the help that we all think should be given - the frameworks that are supposed to be put in place, just aren't there.  Not in the real world. What is there is precious little - but if the government invested money in supporting families and drug addicts, then the cost of that would outweigh the price of trying to fix the mess that drug addiction leaves in it's wake.  Instead we have the whole cost benefit analysis bullshit from people who have no clue about what is really going on.

I don't know what I would have done in that situation, what I do know is that I support her 100% and I am hoping that she doesn't have to stay in this situation for too much longer.  I think that we all want that, all of us.

[DrinkTheElixir]

Basically - what I am hoping is that this thread remains a positive place for us to all think of ways that we can get out there and do something that will help.  Robbbin - I am as angry as you are, but trying to rally people by shouting is counter productive. Don't underestimate the level of passion that we all feel about the situation that Julia is in.  We are all desperately trying to think of ways to make this whole situation better.

[wagtail]

DrinkTheElixir, on 30 January 2011 - 01:12 AM, said:

I really would hate this thread to turn into a slanging match.  It really isn't helping anyone.

I think that it is really easy to sit back and wonder what we would have done and be shocked at the actions of others. The truth of the matter is, that none of us know what it is like to live day by day with someone so hopelessly addicted to drugs.  To have someone change into a person that we don't recognise and end up being so devious and desperate in order to get what they want.  This is every minute of every day for God knows how long. The system has failed Tabby - it has failed Julia - it has failed her entire family.  They had sought help and were turned away.  This wasn't the first step of trying to save their daughter, it was the last desperate attempt.  Nobody knows what that is like, unless you are there, in that moment and desperate to save your baby.  And that is what Tabby is - Julia's baby.  If you have someone lie beneath your heart for nine months then there is nothing on this planet that would stop you from trying to save them, even if that means saving them from themselves.  In the heat and passion of that moment it was a desperate choice between the actions that they tookand allowing Tabby to go out and kill herself with the help of some disgusting drug dealer. Because effectively, that is what was happening.

It isn't about justification, it is about understanding the passion and intention. The sentencing is wrong. Julia isn't a danger to the wider public and yet she is in a prison which is high security and holds some of the most notorious criminals in this country.  Aside from the sentence and location being disproportionate to the crime - this is costing the tax payer and the country a stupid amount of money, when Julia could be in an open prison serving out her sentence.

Would I have done what Julia has done? You know what? I don't know. I have no clue - but as a mother I feel the sense of urgency and the split second decisions made out of desperation. She was trying to save her child the only way she felt that she could right at that moment.  Right now, her husband is there trying to manage the situation with their daughter on his own.  The entire situation compounded because the help that we all think should be given - the frameworks that are supposed to be put in place, just aren't there.  Not in the real world. What is there is precious little - but if the government invested money in supporting families and drug addicts, then the cost of that would outweigh the price of trying to fix the mess that drug addiction leaves in it's wake.  Instead we have the whole cost benefit analysis bullshit from people who have no clue about what is really going on.

I don't know what I would have done in that situation, what I do know is that I support her 100% and I am hoping that she doesn't have to stay in this situation for too much longer.  I think that we all want that, all of us.

There is no slanging match.  

It's not correct to say that none of know what it's like to live daily with someone who is addicted to drugs.  There are things we can talk about that may help others who may be encountering this, or may encounter it in the future.  I think it's important to be open about this stuff, to talk about our own experiences, but if offering a counter point of view was inappropriate in this instance then I apologise.

[DrinkTheElixir]

wagtail, on 30 January 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

There is no slanging match.  

It's not correct to say that none of know what it's like to live daily with someone who is addicted to drugs.  There are things we can talk about that may help others who may be encountering this, or may encounter it in the future.  I think it's important to be open about this stuff, to talk about our own experiences, but if offering a counter point of view was inappropriate in this instance then I apologise.

Let me rephrase - nobody know what it was like to live with Tabby, day after day. We don't know what went on.  

You are right, it is important to be open about this stuff, I have no argument there. However, this thread is about Julia and supporting her and her family - I am just loathed to see it take a direction that deviates from the original intention.