121 replies to this topic

[Geordie mad]

Well I've not heard anything about any leaks. Not sure if i could hold on if one did happen. I couldn't for accelerate. lol

[NewToREM]

Geordie mad, on 17 December 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

Well I've not heard anything about any leaks. Not sure if i could hold on if one did happen. I couldn't for accelerate. lol

If it leaked this early I would really feel for the band.  A week or two isn't too bad but this early would really affect sales.

As always I hope it doesn't.  As you say though I wouldn't hold on either but I would still buy it, but there are many that don't!

[Driver Nate]

Leaks these days are as important as singles, they help build publicity. If it were not to leak at all, that would be a bad indicator as it would mean there's simply not enough interest out there amongst fans to even want to hear it beforehand. In some cases, leaks are even orchestrated by the labels themselves, that's just how vital they are to the success (or failure) of a record.

[Red Frog]

NewToREM, on 17 December 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

If it leaked this early I would really feel for the band.  A week or two isn't too bad but this early would really affect sales.

People buy good albums. The only thing hurting the sale of the last four REM albums is that the last four albums sucked.

[Mark :)]

I think they should of gone for shock and awe (is it cool to say that again yet?) and just released it digitally and sold it on CD later, some bands apparently are doing this (Duran Duran) it stops the (inevitable) leak, gets you press, most fans will buy it cos they wont want to wait for the dodgy copy and will want it there and then, and will buy later again on CD just to get the physical version for the collection.

Maybe when they dump WB they will be able to be more innovative with their marketing, as on the back of the last album and the ninety day build up to hear 35 minutes of questionably produced semi-political (some of which was out of date) 'rock songs' was not good.

I think this just officially turned into a ramble, many apologies.


Mark

By the way I have decided if it does leak I will download it listen to it, if its not upto scratch, Ill wait for a few weeks until its discounted and buy it just for completist sake (sorry again)

[Driver Nate]

I think anyone that cares enough to seek out a leak is also going to buy the album. I believe it all goes back to that study that was done by the record industry a few years ago that determined that those that download the most music (illegally or otherwise) also buy the most music.

[Oowatanite]

Well the track listing changed on the website a couple weeks ago, so I don't think they have made any real copies yet, and the review copies probably won't be sent out for a while. Maybe Ethan can shed more light on that topic.

[MurmursAdministrator]

There aren't many copies around, and they are super super secure.

And thanks Mark for calling a lot of hard work not innovative. Appreciate it.

[mandolinbryn]

Something to keep in mind about the band...

I don't think the success of their albums in the past has as much to do with publicity as many here would like to think.  When they had their string of hits in the US in the late 80s/early 90s, it was genuinely a case of having the right songs at the right time.  Would a song like "Losing My Religion" be a hit today?  While many of us would hope so, it isn't likely.  It seems like they work in their own little world and success finds them, rather than the other way around.  (Example: I truly believe that if they released Up today, it would be EXTREMELY well-received)

I hope that made sense.  What I wanted to get across was that all of the marketing techniques in the world (however "innovative" they may or may not be) still don't matter as much as basic luck.

[NewToREM]

MurmursAdministrator, on 17 December 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

There aren't many copies around, and they are super super secure.

And thanks Mark for calling a lot of hard work not innovative. Appreciate it.

I thought Ninety Nights was fantastic.  People don't realise the amount of work that goes into things sometimes.  I get it all the time in my job, some appreciate it, some don't.

[erock]

MurmursAdministrator, on 17 December 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

There aren't many copies around, and they are super super secure.

And thanks Mark for calling a lot of hard work not innovative. Appreciate it.

  Most advance review copies will probably be streamed won't they?
I know for the Accerlerate advances it was a disc, but does WB still make many discs for higher profile albums and distribute them?

[Anton]

MurmursAdministrator, on 17 December 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

There aren't many copies around, and they are super super secure.

A shame they can trust you so well, Ethan!

[Driver Nate]

mandolinbryn, on 17 December 2010 - 09:50 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind about the band...

I don't think the success of their albums in the past has as much to do with publicity as many here would like to think.  When they had their string of hits in the US in the late 80s/early 90s, it was genuinely a case of having the right songs at the right time.  Would a song like "Losing My Religion" be a hit today?  While many of us would hope so, it isn't likely.  It seems like they work in their own little world and success finds them, rather than the other way around.  (Example: I truly believe that if they released Up today, it would be EXTREMELY well-received)

I hope that made sense.  What I wanted to get across was that all of the marketing techniques in the world (however "innovative" they may or may not be) still don't matter as much as basic luck.

I don't understand your reasoning behind how Losing My Religion wouldn't be a hit if released in 2010 but Up would be "extremely well received". I also don't agree about the luck thing. Of course it always plays a part, as does timing but in R.E.M.'s case there was much more at work than that. They had steadily grown a little more popular with the release of each record which exploded with Out of Time. That had a lot (if not everything) to do with their track record up until that point. You also can't underestimate the power of MTV. Back when it was first released you couldn't flip on the TV or the radio without being bombarded by Losing My Religion. That sort of multimedia presence just doesn't exist today. Yes, you have the internet but you also have many more choices so it would be easy to miss it. Add to that the relentless touring that R.E.M. (and so many others) did in the 80s, how many bands do that anymore? That was a grassroots effort on their part that paid off in the end. Very few artists these days would ever even invest the amount of time and energy R.E.M. did. I believe those factors are much more responsible for their success than mere "luck".

[mandolinbryn]

Their marketing efforts can't control the state of alternative music.  In my opinion, an album like Up would be much more well-received by today's alternative music fans than something like Around the Sun or even Accelerate.  While fans really appreciated them, I don't think NinetyNights or other promo techniques did much to convert new fans to the band.  Sometimes it's really just capturing lightning in a bottle.  When the right song is released in the right climate, it'll succeed.  You can't (legally) force a song to be a hit.  (By the way, they tried that with "Leaving New York" and it didn't work)

As for the importance of grassroots efforts, think about how many bands tried the same thing (constant touring, etc) and ended up NOWHERE.  As much as people like to think it's all hard work that leads up to big success, it's just not the case.  At least not anymore...

[NewToREM]

Losing My Religion would certainly be a hit if released today.  My parents like both Losing My Relgion and The One I Love and I use to play R.E.M. alot when I lived at home.

It was catchy and didn't need growing on you.  To be honest, apart from Losing My Religion, Out of Time isn't that great of an album.

[Remixomatosys]

mandolinbryn, on 18 December 2010 - 03:56 PM, said:

You can't (legally) force a song to be a hit.  (By the way, they tried that with "Leaving New York" and it didn't work)

Here in Italy, LNY was n.1 for a week, and it deserved it, imo

[Driver Nate]

mandolinbryn, on 18 December 2010 - 03:56 PM, said:

Their marketing efforts can't control the state of alternative music.  In my opinion, an album like Up would be much more well-received by today's alternative music fans than something like Around the Sun or even Accelerate.  While fans really appreciated them, I don't think NinetyNights or other promo techniques did much to convert new fans to the band.  Sometimes it's really just capturing lightning in a bottle.  When the right song is released in the right climate, it'll succeed.  You can't (legally) force a song to be a hit.  (By the way, they tried that with "Leaving New York" and it didn't work)

I don't follow your logic here at all (if indeed it can even be called that). What is "alternative music" in 2010 anyway? I also don't get how they tried to "force" Leaving New York to be a hit. Back in the early 90s when Losing My Religion first came out music media wasn't nearly as fragmented as it is now. In those days radio and MTV played a much more prominent role in getting your music heard. In 2010 you have to go through those more traditional outlets as well as the internet which can include everything from YouTube to social networking sites such as Facebook. A huge part of it is dependent upon fans themselves sharing music clips and other bits of info in order to spread the word to reach potential new fans.

mandolinbryn, on 18 December 2010 - 03:56 PM, said:

As for the importance of grassroots efforts, think about how many bands tried the same thing (constant touring, etc) and ended up NOWHERE.  As much as people like to think it's all hard work that leads up to big success, it's just not the case.  At least not anymore...

I don't follow this bit of logic either. Lots of bands have lived out of vans and toured relentlessly. I don't think any of them thought it was some sort of instant road to success. They chose that path because they didn't want to deal with the ramifications of going through a record company. It also has a lot to do with the passion for playing music. R.E.M. could have gotten on some huge tours as an opening act but they chose not to go that route. As far as the "hard work" part, somebody's going to have to do some to have their band exposed to the public whether it be the record company or the artists themselves. When has it ever been the case that no hard work at all was never involved in achieving success? You can throw all the money you want behind a song, that's not going to guarantee it's going to be a "hit".

[fanofrem]

Just want to add that Leaving New York is the most played R.E.M. song on Norwegian radio stations in recent years.

[clicli]

I guess a leak is inevitable. I just saw The Decemberists' "The King Is Dead" has leaked (one month ahead of the official release date).

In a way I would prefer a full album leak rather than having to listen to one song (in full or as a preview) at a time. In any case, as an avid collector, I'm going to buy the record (in all formats: CD, Vinyl, Special Edition, and even cassette if they decide to release).

I just saw Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com have CiN for pre-order.

[jamieferg]

NewToREM, on 19 December 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Losing My Religion would certainly be a hit if released today.  My parents like both Losing My Relgion and The One I Love and I use to play R.E.M. alot when I lived at home.

It was catchy and didn't need growing on you.  To be honest, apart from Losing My Religion, Out of Time isn't that great of an album.

OMG - I had to read your last sentence twice because I couldn't believe you were really saying that! To each his own, I guess but Out of Time, in my opinion, will go down in history as one of the best albums by anyone, ever, period.