79 replies to this topic

[bflood]

ethank said:

I'll say it again:

single choices have nothing to do with what YOU want to hear on radio, but what radio programmers want to hear on radio.

thats why what I want (as a fan) for people to hear rarely jives with what actual audiences want.

there isn't one person in a dark room making these decisions either.

hard core fans (which we are) should just play the fucking CD and enjoy it.

AAA is going to play it and that is all.  Alternative/Modern Rock stations are not going to touch Nothing Man.

But as you wrote in an another post, radio really isn't the be all, end all any more.

[MurmursAdministrator]

bflood said:

AAA is going to play it and that is all.  Alternative/Modern Rock stations are not going to touch Nothing Man.

But as you wrote in an another post, radio really isn't the be all, end all any more.

AAA still buys records :)

[jimjos]

speaking of singles,
where is the best place to buy a cd single of "SS"?  I see its got "Airliner" as a B-side.  
I know it is easily available as a download, but I want to hold the physical item in my hand.  

If a physical cd single for "HM" comes out, perhaps they can put the recent cover of "Munich" on it.  That would be cool and maybe a song pulled from one of the Dublin shows.

[TheCrackedJack]

instansoup said:

Well AMMB from Up was a top 10 single in the U.K as I remember.

That wasn't my point though. I was simply saying that: (i) I suspect they know what they are doing more than some random punter on an internet forum does; and (ii) that the song that best represents an album isn't always the best choice as a single as regards commercial success.

Moreover, the reason so many of the singles have not done so good may well have more to do with the nature of the industry itself (i.e. people simply moving away from r.e.m's sound during those records) than the choice of single itself. In truth, any song from Up, Reveal or Around the Sun may not have been a hit so the question of a single choice, and by implication whether such a choice was good or bad, is a rather moot one.

I agree that the current environment is not one that caters to R.E.M.'s sound.  So, yes it probably wouldn't matter one way or another.

Just remember that the radio is catering to the average internet idiot, however.  And, I'd assume that idiot would know what he wants more than some rich studio exec who has a hand picking the single.

[1two3four5]

i will admit it would have been nice for r.e.m. to have their "relevancy comeback" with this album, but from the moment i first heard it i sort of felt it would not be it. it's just not the kind of album that will top the charts or anything. it's too -for-the-lack-of-a-better-word- intelligent to be universally successful. plus, i will admit that supernatural superserious is really catchy and fun, but it's, in a way, a generic r.e.m. song that could have gathered more attention with a different video, but like this, it falls into obscurity because it is not supported by "astounding originality and mass appeal". i love vincent's work on the video, 90 nights, 6 days, the driving around or singing in a grain silo, but this stuff is too arty to appeal to the music taste of today. to me, this feels like a great album that marks a newly rediscovered vitality for the band, and with great treats for the r.e.m.-flag waving fan. despite the great promotion, i feel like this is all for me, for us, not for "the world". it's like the great party where everyone is invited but only some know how to get to. i'm very proud of r.e.m. and of the rekindling of their spark (the mr. richards "take-away" video is simply the best sign i have of this new/old direction), and accelerate is a great achievement by some people whose body of work is part of my life.

pretending that i care, i think hollow man makes a good single, but perhaps as a fourth/fifth. now, as a second single, i feel like it's giving the outside world "more of the same thing" as supernatural superserious and it also doesn't provide insight of the album's true nature. i will admit i have a very selfish secondary reason for the choice of their singles, other than the "public awareness factor": videos. i'd love to see videos for my favourite tracks off the album. or, as a "compromise", for tracks i think are key elements to defining the album. my album favourite, sing for the submarine, will probably never be a single and i'm no fool to think otherwise. i would've picked accelerate as a second single because i think it defines the album the most, it's rocking, in-your-face and it gives the album its name (am i the only one who thinks this is single material?). songs that are both catchy and rocking and representative of the album are man-sized wreath and living well is the best revenge. as much as i love until the day is done, i think it would be really strange to have it as a third video before any of these three...

so, what i'd have liked the singles to be, for:

selfish reasons:
1. accelerate
2. man-sized wreath
3. living well is the best revenge
4. until the day is done
5. sing for the submarine

selfish + reasonably commercial reasons:
1. man-sized wreath
2. accelerate
3. until the day is done
4. living well is the best revenge
5. hollow man

what they MIGHT be, for commercial reasons:
1. supernatural superserious
2. hollow man
3. until the day is done (by here the momentum is lost and maybe the singles will stop or get very little promotion)
4. man-sized wreath
5. living well is the best revenge

P.S.: i love all the tracks from the album and any new video will be great.

P.P.S.: i hope the next videos also feature bill r. and scott, these guys deserve it!

[bflood]

ethank said:

AAA still buys records :)

Very true, and the AAA demographic is the one that probably has the most money.

[norung]

For what it's worth, I can't stop playing "Hollow Man".  I think the song and lyrics are great, but I can't believe the vocal Michael turned in.  I don't know if it's his age, or if the cigarettes are to blame, but his voice during the quiet parts just do not sound right.  Fortunately the chorus is catchy and most of the rest of the song is loud enough to drown it out, and I like how they change it up the third(?) time with new lyrics.  It's brilliant.

[thisone]

All really interesting replies. Most of us here have all heard the album by now, and personal tastes obviously dictate a lot.

The argument that Hollow Man isn't rock enough to have much of an impact is odd, as R.E.M.'s biggest singles in the last 20 years haven't really been "rock" songs at all..Religion, Stand, Shiny Happy People, Drive, Everbody Hurts, Man On The Moon ect..What's The Frequency Kenneth is actually the only rocker that comes to mind.

In the 60's and 70's, the radio was all you could hear and singles were crucial. In the 80's and 90's they were attached to a video. Everything's up for grabs now. Who cares? R.E.M. was one of those rare crossover bands in the late 80's and 90's that were so popular that it worked on every format. Playlists on commercial radio are so narrow now anyway. R.E.M. has been AAA (a shrinking format in itself) since Hi Fi and that's totally fine. They'd have more luck having something on Grey's Anatomy.

[jimjos]

R.E.M. have never really been a singles band.  All of the "first era" fantastic R.E.M. music were not radio hits until document.  
The One I Love was the first radio hit and it was a great one.  A classic pop song. End of the World is much more of a well known album favorite, as opposed to a high charting single.  
Religion was a huge hit, but it really does/did seem accidental.  Stand and Shiny Happy People were perhaps more designed for cross over radio appeal, but they are two of least great R.E.M. songs in the band's history (my apologies and my opinion).  Man On the Moon was a hit, but again, I think that was more accidental/benefited from the bands huge popularity at the time.  Everybody Hurts was designed more of a radio hit, and it was.  Kenneth was a huge alt rock hit, but not a big cross over Top 40 song.  
They chose E-Bow to be the first single of Hi Fi, because it was a great song, but its not a mainstream type song at all.  It simply kicks ass.  

Since then, they have more or less come up with one song on each album that are both not over the top radio friendly songs, but still with a classic pop structure and relatively radio friendly.  (Daysleeper, IOL, Leaving New York and now Supernatural).  

So to sum it up, I would say that the single has never been really what the band has been about.  And when they have designed songs specifically to go up the charts, they had to take things down a notch.  

But it has worked out so well for them!!!  Look at how many huge top 40 sensations there have been that have come and gone in the last 25 years, meanwhile R.E.M. are still selling top ten albums.  

I am not sure if there is some stats on this, but I think you can count on one hand the amount of bands that have had top ten records spanning 20 plus years.  
You have the Stones, U2, R.E.M. and is that it????

It is also possible/probable that Green Day, Radiohead and Pearl Jam will be like that too, but, again, while huge selling bands, they are not designed to have songs on the Top 40 billboard singles charts.

[ilona0925]

Great news! Must say - from my first listen up to now is "Hollow Man" in fact the place where I tapp on 'repeat' by far the most often - for me it's nothing less than a masterpiece by being both a wonderful, addictive song for even a "hardcore" fan and attractive, pleasant and lovely enough to satisfy the mainstream..

I'm pretty sure this song has real big potential for becoming a commercially super hit (closely followed by 'Until the day is done')

...just thinking, an absolute dream would be "Red Head Walking" as "b-side" (or "bonus track" or however this is called currently :))

[jimjos]

norung said:

For what it's worth, I can't stop playing "Hollow Man".  I think the song and lyrics are great, but I can't believe the vocal Michael turned in.  I don't know if it's his age, or if the cigarettes are to blame, but his voice during the quiet parts just do not sound right.  Fortunately the chorus is catchy and most of the rest of the song is loud enough to drown it out, and I like how they change it up the third(?) time with new lyrics.  It's brilliant.

I had thought of that, but after hearing Michael sing outside of the studio, (Munich cover for instance) I think is voice is just fine.  I just think that Michael intones that way when he is trying to sound, well, a little hollow.  Kind of the same sound he produced on Sad Professor or New Test Leper.  

"Call me leper...errrrr"

[Cassis]

Isn't it Hollow Man instead of Hollowman?

[Chad]

I am kind of surprised that it isn't going to be Living Well - I've heard this track being played on both BBC 6Music and XFM this weekend - and it sounds great on the radio.  Maybe this will be the third single?

Hollow man rocked live too at the Albert Hall in my opinion - it grabbed you from the first moment that it changes pace, and will also be a good single I reckon.

[Low Feedback]

I'm sure Hollow Man will make a useful single. The refrain is fresh and full of excitement but the lyrics are so-so. The direct refrain still creates a motion that's quite typichal for R.E.M., like a feeling of watching the surroundings while moving, maybe traveling, and feeling a bit left out. I like the visual aspect of this song a lot, the whole idea of being labeled "Hollow Man", it sounds so mellow, melancholic, but yet full of dreams and reasonable hope. A bit sad that it feels so pop-characterized. The intro is very moving, with Michael's vocals after the piano that sounds from a darkened room. The way the first two lines are perfomed is among the highlights on the record for me at the moment, even though I know some people will put a critical note on the way Michael handles quiet singing in these days. To me it sounds beautiful and sad, but the sad side is filled with hope and desire to move on. Since the song itself is so easy to listen to (it is a bit "thin"), I'm afraid this will be the first song on the album that I will grow tired of (maybe with SS, since I've listened to it about 170 times).

[onemaptwolegend]

It probably doesn't matter which they release as a single in terms of chart success. It can't really compete with Leona Lewis et al, can it?! Hopefully on the plus side there'll be some interesting b-sides as on SS and not just live filler.

[bflood]

thisone said:

All really interesting replies. Most of us here have all heard the album by now, and personal tastes obviously dictate a lot.

The argument that Hollow Man isn't rock enough to have much of an impact is odd, as R.E.M.'s biggest singles in the last 20 years haven't really been "rock" songs at all..Religion, Stand, Shiny Happy People, Drive, Everbody Hurts, Man On The Moon ect..What's The Frequency Kenneth is actually the only rocker that comes to mind.

In 1992, Hollow Man would have been a very successful single at Alternative and Album Rock radio.  The problem is that today, Alternative and Mainstream Rock skews heavily towards harder rock.  Some mid-tempo stuff does get played, it is much more difficult it to get added to playlists.  

Don't get me wrong, I think Hollow Man is an excellent song, but I don't think Alternative stations trying to appeal to a young audience will give it much of a shot - unfortunately.

[ilona0925]

onemaptwolegend said:

It probably doesn't matter which they release as a single in terms of chart success. It can't really compete with Leona Lewis et al, can it?!

In case of 'Hollow Man' I wouldn't be so sure - it is just beautiful for any kind of "target group" I think. And I has this 'certain something' - it's special in a certain way. Hard to describe.. - LMR had as well this very special thing which I have no real good words for to describe. It's just unique.

There will always be a number of Leona Lewisses, Rihannas and how they're all called in the top positions as well. Sex sells. I don't think, these guys were extremely successful when no visual component was involved :D Shut up and drive, yessss :D:D

I'm very curious how the video for Hollow Man will be like. Something to dream about, something magical would be so fine for this song :)

[Matthew31]

For the people here who are 'screaming': 'Man Sized Wreath should be the next single!' i think they are missing the point that it is the most 'Dad-rock sounding' song on the album (not my 'term', but it seems quite fitting... lol)
I dont see younger rockfans appreciate this quite unspectecular mixture of glam and southern rock.
In contrary to many people here, i consider it one of the most generic tracks on the album: it could have been a filler track on Life Rich Pageant, it could have been a 'decent' New Adventures on Hifi Track or some 'giveaway' for a movie soundtrack.

Apart from Mike Mills great backgroundvocals and basswork, i dont see how this song could attract new fans to the group.

My personal choice for the second single would either be Living Well is the best revenge or Horse to Water, because i think their straightforward 'punkieness' would surprise younger people who associate REM with classic-rock radio 'food' like Losing my religion and Everbody hurts.

There is nothing clear about Hollow Man being the second single, but i don't consider it a bad choice for a single at all.
It has a sort of 'general quality and sound' IMO, like older songs as Fall on Me and The one i love (not that is that good as that song, by the way) that makes it fitting for mainstream popradio, alternative rockchannels and AOR-stations.

By the way, when i bought my copy of Accelerate it had a sticker on it which said: including Supernatural Superserious and Until the Day is done.
That gives me the idea that Until the day is done will be a future single. Alltough its not very representative of the album, i think when that song will be released in september or october (right before the november elections), the lyrics will sure touch some hearts and minds and help it to become a hit.

So, my combined pick / prediction for the singles is this:
1. Supernatural Superserious (allready released)
2. Living Well is the best revenge or Horse to Water (the end of april)
3. Hollow Man (Juli)
4. Untill the day is done (september / october)

[jpraibis]

ilona0925 said:

In case of 'Hollow Man' I wouldn't be so sure - it is just beautiful for any kind of "target group" I think. And I has this 'certain something' - it's special in a certain way. Hard to describe.. - LMR had as well this very special thing which I have no real good words for to describe. It's just unique.

agree - something special and hard to describe, indeed.

any idea of b-sides?

on the fly (studio) would be most welcome here.

[Pale Blue Eyes]

Good, bacause I love it!!!