214 replies to this topic

[drainyou]

It's a damn shame Detroit didn't follow through on that the way Toyota and Honda did. Ford, GM and Chrysler are all behind the 8 ball now, playing catch-up.


Do you know part of the reason WHY the amercan car companies cannot invest in those technologies??

They don't play on an even field.. Japanese auto makers EVEN the plants in the USA don't have to provide all the bullshit benefits and pay all the bullshit regulations that the US counterparts do.

You may have wonderful ideas, but in the real world, where people get down and DO things instead of talk about them, these ideas HURT Americans..

And I noticed you STILL cannot offer any evidence of any lib social program HELPING working America.

Blue blood Jag.

[Kelly A]

drainyou said:

Hey Chris Stratton..

I ain't trying to needle you.. I thought this was friendly..

My fucking name isn't Tex, you pinko fuck..

If I want to get at you I will...

Until then, best you chill the fuck out and keep this shit on topic..

And you are the one with the closed mind, asshat - not me.

The truth is, you wasted time with your signature gathering.. you live in a liberal state that matters not very much in the grand scheme of things.. You think that you have a monoploy on common sense? You really are delusional...

Come live in a state that is overrun with illegal aliens, welfare families, ignorant voting fools and apathetic morons that vote whichever way the A list celebrity du juor tells them to and see what you think then..

Or grow a set, and do like I have and try to run a succesful business in a state that taxes the shit out of us, and creates a horrible climate to do business by overfucking regulating every little thing we try to do. Let me give you an example of your fucked up lib agenda hurting my business - I own a trucking company. I have 8 trucks and 10 employees. (See, I help make this country go,I don't just sit and bitch about shit I don't understand)  The California EPA has made it illegal for me to possess or use any solvents to clean parts. When my mechanics need to clean parts, we simply can't. period. HOWEVER -  it is perfectly legal for anyone to have as much solvent as they want in their home, without any real need.. WHY? Because of environmentalist fuckheads like you. See, you guys cant regulate joe homeowner - because there is NO authority to do so.. but by becoming a businessman and getting various licenses, they can make you do wtfever they want. And guess who is dumping their shit into the rivers? Not us businesspeople.. So what sense does that kind of shit make?

See, dude - you can sit back and read all the papers and quote all the stats you want until you are blue in the face. While you were out playing with Moby fucking Dick, I was busting my ass to create actual jobs - and dealing with this bullshit that people like you help create. So do me a favor - until you actually do something to help real people, shut the fuck up, ok?

Prick.

I question whether this post is truly friendly as you say, but perhaps it's a matter of definitions.

So what was the topic again? Preachers or something like that?

[drainyou]

Quoting Christopher Stratton:

Most people have a limited understanding, at best, of a phenomenon as complicated as global warming and the attendant shifts in climactic patterns. They very well DO filter the issue of GH through the lens of their personal experience.



PLease, messiah tell us all about attendant shifts in climactic patterns and how it relates to the RECORD COLD temperatures being experienced all over the world this year..

Please, do elaborate, since you and libs of your ilk claim such knowledge - What were the shifts like 300 years ago, before petrolium distillation - HELL, before the industrial revolution.. or 500, 800 1000 years ago?

Do you sincerely believe - are you arrogant enough to believe that with volcanic activity, and all other sorts of NATURAL changes, that man can dictate nature?? Seriously??

I will buy certain things, like pavement and asphalt taking the place of grass and dirt and trees trapping amounts of heat energy and changing certain essential conditions,, but to say that you have empirical evidence is ludicrous.

And good thing AlGore isn't making any money off of this bullshit - because then he could be accused of simply shilling.. Oh wait.. carbon offset companies that he owns majority stock in... yeah.. tell me again how that works??

More bullshit.

[drainyou]

Kelly - ChrisStratton and I went about this the other day, and PMed each other a couple of times.. it was friendly in my mind, until he starts trying to label me and very passive-aggressively dig at me..

I don't care for that see-through wimpy name calling shit.. In fact I defended him against the same in another thread..

Its just weak, and feeble and lame.

Otherwise, I have no personal animosity towards any person here..

  I apologize if that irritated you.

And for that matter, I apologize to him for the name-calling.. but once you start, I can play however you want.

[Kelly A]

drainyou said:

Kelly - ChrisStratton and I went about this the other day, and PMed each other a couple of times.. it was friendly in my mind, until he starts trying to label me and very passive-aggressively dig at me..

I don't care for that see-through wimpy name calling shit.. In fact I defended him against the same in another thread..

Its just weak, and feeble and lame.

Otherwise, I have no personal animosity towards any person here..

  I apologize if that irritated you.

And for that matter, I apologize to him for the name-calling.. but once you start, I can play however you want.

I'm just wondering if this thread has run its course. Maybe a separate thread on energy policies would be appropriate.

[drainyou]

Kelly A said:

I'm just wondering if this thread has run its course. Maybe a separate thread on energy policies would be appropriate.

No argument here. I'm done.

I think you have the best damn point in the whole thread!!

[dan23]

drainyou said:

It's a damn shame Detroit didn't follow through on that the way Toyota and Honda did. Ford, GM and Chrysler are all behind the 8 ball now, playing catch-up.


Do you know part of the reason WHY the American car companies cannot invest in those technologies??

They don't play on an even field.. Japanese auto makers EVEN the plants in the USA don't have to provide all the bullshit benefits and pay all the bullshit regulations that the US counterparts do.

You may have wonderful ideas, but in the real world, where people get down and DO things instead of talk about them, these ideas HURT Americans..

And I noticed you STILL cannot offer any evidence of any lib social program HELPING working America.

Blue blood Jag.

I'm not so sure you are on the right page here...  In America it doesn't matter who your parent company is, you still have to abide by American Law, now The big 3 may be getting screwed by the unions they let into their plants - by let in I mean, treated workers bad so the workers pushed to get a union in the factory.  Honda, Toyota and others that build in the US, are still regulated, and must provide benefits according to the size of their company within the laws of the state they reside - that goes for all companies.  I just don't see your argument as factual, in saying that Honda and Toyota aren't held under the same regulations as the big 3 - I don't buy that argument.

What is lame, is that the US companies engineer their vehicles to break down, they plan for us to replace these vehicles in quickly, so they never last that long - most are in the landfill within 7...  Now a good Subaru will be on the road forever it seems, 5 years ago Subaru was the only company that could make this claim, that 90% of their cars that are 10 years old are still owned by the original owner - why, because Japan breads quality, and it starts with design, design to last...  Not like the American brands, designed to be replaced...

Just like presidential policy - designed to be replaced in 4 to 8 years...

[Driver Eight]

dan23 said:

I'd like to see a flat tax. If the national poverty level is at $25k, I'd like to see a flat tax start at any dollar made above $35k.  No loop holes, no tax breaks, just a simple 12%, possibly a 10% tax to every person, corp, business - or any identity that should pay a tax.  Simple, fair and easy...  

Any flat tax that would balance the budget would involve a ruinous tax hike for most people with incomes, after deductions, south of $150K. That might work for you, but it doesn't for most people.

dan23 said:

Does the Green Party push that - I don't see anyone pushing it, but someone should start...  

Really rich guys are pushing it - $50M and north rich, guys like Pierre "Pete" DuPont and Malcolm S. "Steve" Forbes, Jr. just LOVE it. It would be great for them if they could pull the wool over all our eyes and get us to agree to that sucker bet.

dan23 said:

But Hillary wants to Tax us more, the poor, and the middle class, we can't afford to pay more, she won't push to raise taxes on her rich friends cause she would loose funding ...

OK, this is the point in the program where you prove yourself detached from reality. Hillary proposes cutting, not raising, some middle class taxes and hiking them on families with annual household incomes, after all deductions, of $250,000. The are not the poor nor the middle class.

Hillary wants to restore tax rates on the rich to the level they were back when Bill was president. That's it, that's all. You can go on believing Hillary is all about soaking the poor and cutting taxes on the rich, and you can go on believing the moon is made of green cheese if you want. Forgive the rest of us if we don't join you.

-CS

[remring]

Christratton2007 said:

Yep, that's me, conservative anti-environmentalist. Which is why I majored in environmental biology and worked for Greenpeace for three years. That's the ticket.

Environmentalists want gas prices higher to promote conservation. To insist on keeping the 18 cent per gallon tax on gasoline amid gas prices spiking 100% over about 3 years' time is overkill, though, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

-CS

well you must not have paid much attention to your greenpeace years then.

[Driver Eight]

drainyou said:

Hey Chris Stratton..

I ain't trying to needle you.. I thought this was friendly...

Well, so much for the even keel! You TRIED to needle me. Sounds like I turned the tables on you successfully. As I tried politely, but assertively, to suggest, don't trifle with me. You've already found yourself overmatched and couldn't keep your cool. Trust me, it's not gonna get better for you.

Where I'm wasting my time is in conversing with a hotheaded, passive aggressive control freak with a chip on his shoulder the size of the Half Dome. I can remedy that easily. Keep it up with the hotheaded theatrics, and I'll just leave you writhing in your impressive volume of rage. Find somewhere else to vent your spleen, thanks. I gave at the office.

-CS

[Driver Eight]

drainyou said:

Do you know part of the reason WHY the amercan car companies cannot invest in those technologies??

Do you know that GM was involved in the PNGV to which I referred into a prior post, Mr. Hothead? They bailed from it because they thought they could profiteer off behemoth SUVs and pickup trucks for suburbanite until kingdom come. Well guess what? Kingdom did come and it's the Saudi Kingdom. And Detroit is getting its head handed to it by Honda and Toyota, whose leaders had some foresight and picked up on PNGV, took the ball and ran with it.

That's what you call taking ideas and making them reality.

-CS

[drainyou]

Christratton2007 said:

Well, so much for the even keel! You TRIED to needle me. Sounds like I turned the tables on you successfully. As I tried politely, but assertively, to suggest, don't trifle with me. You've already found yourself overmatched and couldn't keep your cool. Trust me, it's not gonna get better for you.

Where I'm wasting my time is in conversing with a hotheaded, passive aggressive control freak with a chip on his shoulder the size of the Half Dome. I can remedy that easily. No thanks, no more. Find somewhere else to vent your rage, thanks. I gave at the office.

-CS

Yeah, you turned the tables on me by bitching to the admin? Ohh, great rebuttal.

You got me there! Not once did you respond to my direct questions.. Not once do you address the real things in life.

Go teach someone how to dance. You have no clue how the real world works. I can sleep at night knowing I contribute to society by actually employing people and paying taxes.

[Driver Eight]

drainyou said:

PLease, messiah tell us all about attendant shifts in climactic patterns and how it relates to the RECORD COLD temperatures being experienced all over the world this year..

Please, do elaborate, since you and libs of your ilk claim such knowledge - What were the shifts like 300 years ago, before petrolium distillation - HELL, before the industrial revolution.. or 500, 800 1000 years ago?

Do you sincerely believe - are you arrogant enough to believe that with volcanic activity, and all other sorts of NATURAL changes, that man can dictate nature?? Seriously??

Do you seriously believe that we can double and triple atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane, chlorofluorocarbons and other heat trapping gases (and, Chief, their heat-trapping properties are a matter of basic physical chemistry and not a matter of controversy except maybe to a few folks who think Jesus or Allah directs our climate - are you among them), do you think, Drain, that we can increase all those gases in the air and NOT have a massive impact on our climate. Really?!? I thought your smarter than that. Hotheaded? Yes. Doctrinaire and rigid? Oh sure. But that kinda ignorant? Didn't think so, sorry.

-CS

[Driver Eight]

drainyou said:

And for that matter, I apologize to him for the name-calling.. but once you start, I can play however you want.

You were the "friendly" one who started with the direspectful wholesale trashing of my former scholastic and activist career. I saw it for what it was and called a spade a spade.

You are angry, over the top hothead who gets good and pissed off if others stand up to your petty bullying in a political disagreement. Maybe you can play that kind of game with your trucking company, but I don't play that way.

Outsmart me on the substance and on the logic if you can, and if you can, I'll thank you for teaching me something along the way. But spare me the temper tantrums worthy of a grade school playground bully.

Again, you thought you were gonna get under my skin. Didn't work out that way, did it?

[Mary]

I'm closing this thread, because I don't think it's salvageable at this point--if anyone is interested in starting a discussion about energy policy, I encourage that and hope (perhaps futilely) that it can go more smoothly in a fresh thread.

Drainyou, for the record, Chris didn't complain about your abusive post (I'm referring particularly to post #200 here) to the admin/hosts.  Not that it would be inappropriate if he had, however, since it was clearly over-the-line and insulting.  Please refrain from using such abusive, profane language and from insulting other users in this forum, and throughout Murmurs.  It is against the Murmurs user's agreement, and it does nothing to advance the discussion.  I refer you again to the welcome page for News & Events--you may wish to review the guidelines there.

And I think it'd be good if everyone stopped pouring fuel on each other's fires--this thread has gotten nasty, and it certainly didn't have to.  Stop antagonizing each other.