297 replies to this topic

[Driver Eight]

Now those are some serious smilies. Where did you get them?

[Driver Eight]

theyself said:

This thread truly has degenerated.  I imagine that most people who entered it did so expecting disagreement, even vigorous and spirited disagreement, but presupposed that we could count on the good faith of the participants and on respect for others even when they are expressing terribly ill-conceived opinions.

I think the story of this thread, Ted, is that I unwittingly stirred up a hornet's nest. By far the worst flaming I've gotten in about 11 years of posting online. I don't even remember the second worst, as it was a couple orders of magnitude less than this one. This one has truly shaken me, I must confess, given me chest pain.

But I handled it mostly poorly and only aggravated it. Let my anger and frustration at what is happening in the campaign and my usual dogged determination to get my point across get the better of me and forgot my manners. Should have maintained a constructive approach, even when my treatment by others was not.

I have made an effort to apologize, both publicly and privately. That succeeded beautifully with you, Ted. Not so much with some others. Reasonably well with yet some others. I think that has to do with what's going on with each respective person, and I think you also have friends here, in some cases, sticking up for friends. They are not about to break ranks, even if they doubtless know a friend or two has had their wheels fall off.

Much easier to maintain a solid front against one defined as a hated enemy, therefore not deserving of common courtesy - when you shoot a goddamn Nazi soldier, you don't apologize, I get that. I think it's abhorrent to see otherwise nice people behave that way, but then again, I am an otherwise nice person, and I have behaved abhorrently here at times. We all are capable of quite ugly things, I'm afraid.

Speaking of the dark side, at your recommendation, Ted, I picked up a Nietszche collection last night, as well as one for Immanuel Kant, whom I've always wanted to read. I am excited to get into them, and to spend less time spinning my wheels, relatively fruitlessly on the best of days, on internet discussion boards. One of the reasons I confab on politics on public dbs like this is that I enjoy writing and use this as a way to keep those faculties engaged. I've been telling myself for some time that it's time to channel that writing jones to a more directed, focussed end. Perhaps, for me personally, that is what this ends up being about.

I'll be happy to confer with you about Friedrich and Immanuel as I delve into their works. I'd love to correspond on it, if you like.

Best,

-CS

PS: To readers other than Ted. Though this post is addressed to Ted, it is my intent that much of it be read by others here whom I may have offended as an apology to them as well, if they wish to see it that way (I understand if they regrettably may not). It is sincere.

Regardless of how I was treated at times, it does not excuse my reaction, which is what I am supposed to have control over. I think most people will agree that it's a lot more difficult to control when you are being ganged up on (an experience I recommend to no one), but that does not excuse my stooping to the levels I did at times. This has left a mark, and I have learned from it.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

Christratton2007 said:

Now those are some serious smilies. Where did you get them?

Oh, here and there. All over, really.

[honeycomb]

I didn't make it far into this thread before "Mike Huckabee sucks eggs" appeared. After Ron Paul (who unfortunately has no chance) Huck is my choice. Why are most looking forward to Hil or Obama? Do you want to pay more in taxes among other things?

[bizaleth]

honeycomb said:

I didn't make it far into this thread before "Mike Huckabee sucks eggs" appeared. After Ron Paul (who unfortunately has no chance) Huck is my choice. Why are most looking forward to Hil or Obama? Do you want to pay more in taxes among other things?

I think Huckabee is incredibly personable. I think he's entertaining. I love watching him on The Daily Show and whatnot--he has a great sense of humor and self-deprecation. What I don't agree with and why I would never, ever, ever, ever vote for him is his evangelicalism and my fear that he would use that to make political decisions--just as our current president has. I have no problem with a President having deep faith, my problem is when they use their personal beliefs as a base to make decisions for the entire country.

[Driver Eight]

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

Oh, here and there. All over, really.

A friend of mine seems to have an endless supply of them. A ceaseless source of amusement. My favorite is a simple smilie, nodding yes. I don't know how to export it from IM into here. Tried to cut and paste and just got text, doggone it. Where are some good places to get them, especially free ones, if you don't mind sharing?

While we're at it, SFA, your dancing Millsy is probably my favorite avatar here.  Very eyecatching!

[Driver Eight]

honeycomb said:

I didn't make it far into this thread before "Mike Huckabee sucks eggs" appeared. After Ron Paul (who unfortunately has no chance) Huck is my choice. Why are most looking forward to Hil or Obama? Do you want to pay more in taxes among other things?

HC:

I get a kick out of Huck every time I see him. It's very refreshing so see a major Republican presidential candidate tweaking the super rich with jibes like "Club for Greed" instead of "Club for Growth."

As for Obama and Clinton on taxes, were you aware that they both propose to raise taxes only on high earners, people making $250,000/year after deductions. That's only about 1-2% of the public. The rest of us might even get a tax cut or two, targeted to specific purposes.

A lot of people think Bill Clinton raised income taxes on everybody. Do you think that? He only raised tax rates on those clearing $200,000/year after deductions, about 1% of the public at that time. Those people have a lot of money and a lot of power, though, and the newspapers the own and many of the TV stations, to boot, were not shy about giving the misimpression that Pres. Clinton had raised taxes on everybody. He did raise gas taxes by 4.3 cents per gallon, that's true. I don't know about you, HC, but I'd be much happier to be paying the gas prices from when he was president versus what we're paying now. I think we were much better off then.

To answer your question, HC, I think Obama and Clinton supporters are both sick and tired of the war and the lies and want to restore some sense of honesty and fair play in Washington. We have different ideas of the right approach and the right candidate for doing that, but the goals are much the same. We've had enough of seven years of failed, dishonest policies, and we see Sen. McCain as just more of the same.

Mr. Huckabee, while refreshing, creative and interesting (though perhaps extreme in some of his policy views), will not be the R nominee. The choice will be between McCain, the Dem nominee and whatever third party people want to run, such as Mike Bloomberg and definitely Ralph Nader.

-CS

[bizaleth]

Christratton2007 said:

I think that has to do with what's going on with each respective person,

Nope, I'm a bitch naturally. It has nothing to do with what's going on with my personal life (which you know nothing about, of course).

[bizaleth]

Christratton2007 said:

whatever third party people want to run, such as Mike Bloomberg

I saw the people from Bloomberg Law/Business at a conference in January. They think he'll run. I remember hearing somewhere (I have no clue where), that he woudl make a decision in March. At the time I was like, "Ha, sure, wait until the nominations are all wrapped up." Guess not.

[Driver Eight]

bizaleth said:

Nope, I'm a bitch naturally. It has nothing to do with what's going on with my personal life ...

If what you say about yourself is true, that would be something going on with you personally, would it not?

[bizaleth]

Christratton2007 said:

If what you say about yourself is true, that would be something going on with you personally, would it not?

No.




..

[Driver Eight]

bizaleth said:

No.

We'll have to disagree about that, I guess. When people ask, "Geez, what's going on with so and so," a common answer is, "Oh, he's just a prick," or "She's a catty bitch." But of course you needn't agree.

[bizaleth]

I needn't.

[Driver Eight]

So we shan't. Tea and crumpets, anyone? Quite the sticky wicket, I'd say. Chuckle.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

Anyone know what happened to Max Lewy?

[BlueCordFFA]

Hmmm...

[Driver Eight]

bizaleth said:

I saw the people from Bloomberg Law/Business at a conference in January. They think he'll run. I remember hearing somewhere (I have no clue where), that he woudl make a decision in March. At the time I was like, "Ha, sure, wait until the nominations are all wrapped up." Guess not.

Oh, Obama may have it wrapped up after Texas and Ohio. If he wins Texas it's over. If he makes it close there, it may be.

And Bloomberg could easily get into a race with the two centrist Senators and run on what would be, among three candidates (whether it's Clinton or Obama for the Dems), his unrivalled managerial experience. And his politics and his policies would be much like the Democrats'. It would be awfully crowded in the center!

[Mary]

I'm closing this thread, for several reasons, most of them probably obvious but here goes anyway:

1.  This thread's clearly no longer on topic, and I don't think that it's really got a chance of crawling out of the pit it's dug for itself at this point.  There's too much baggage in here.

2.  It should've been closed sooner.  I think the reason we left it open (a bit longer than we should have, perhaps) was out of hopes that people would sort out their differences, more or less, and that the thread would die a natural death (as many controversial ones in N&E have historically done, and since we tend to use thread closings as a last resort).  Clearly, that has not happened, and I'd like to apologize for letting it fester as long as we did.  We three hosts in here try to keep on top of things, but sometimes over the weekends in particular we aren't online as much as during the weekdays.  But still, I apologize.

3.  I sincerely suggest that everybody takes a look at this, and then takes an objective look at what went on in this thread, and remember that the Presidential election is nearly nine months away.  Nine months.  We've got a long haul ahead of us and surely there will be loads to discuss along the way.  We encourage lively debate in here, but please remember the cardinal rule of N&E:  "assume goodwill."


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