62 replies to this topic

[michaels_muppet]

yea he said about the recording process being more of a struggle and when i heard that... it briefly hurt!!!

all i can say is that i wait to see them in dublin and hear how everything turns out....

fingers crossed...

[Magnetic North]

I think its important to note that peter has a tendency to exaggerate in interviews. A lot. Part of his dislike for the process, i would guess. I wouldn't read too much into it.

[wagtail]

Etty, I find it hard to respond to your posts because you seem to read things in my post that I don't actually write.

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

Booking studio time and getting in the same room with the others, yeah, I can see Peter being more vague with that then Mike and Michael.

:confused: I didn't say anything about studio time, I said he was talking about having a plan for their career overall...and he said the opposite to what you have summised.....he liked to have time-frames planned and the others didn't.  

I really only remember that part so well, because it was pre-Reveal and he said something like...'I like to think we'll record the album, tour...probably go to asia, australia, nz..because we haven't been there for a long time..etc etc etc'.  I remember thinking...Well that never happened!

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

How is he being an arsehole? Saying he doesn't enjoy playing the media game makes him an arsehole?

We're kinda back at square one with this.....in your previous post you said its not in REM interests for Peter to be an arsehole to bigwigs. If that's the case it's also not in REMs interest to publically whinge about having to do it.

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

Peter doesn't *have* to come out to greet fans with the M5/V3. He does it because he wants to.

You seem very certain about that.

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

Peter doesn't *have* to come out to greet fans with the M5/V3. He does it because he wants to. If he didn't want to, he could pull a Stipey and disappear into the night, leaving the others to sign autographs and have  pictures taken with the fans. As for the awkward thing, I think you're confusing diffidence with arrogance..

You translate awkward as arrogant?  Clearly we have very different sensibilities...I never said he was arrrogant, and I think awkward is a polar opposite to arrogance.

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

I thought you liked ATS. You've been one of the more vocal supporters of it. You think the production on ATS is sparse?? We'll have to agree to disagree on that, to my ears there are a hell of a lot of blips, beeps and over the top walls of synths.

I do like ATS... but I've also said, on many occasions, that musically it lacks impetus and drive, I've said that I thought the production was too clean. I don't think liking an album neccessarily excludes you from offering criticisms of it....my world isn't that black and white, thankfully.

By sparse I mean it's not particularly layered, and nor very guitar-driven.  I don't think sparseness is a bad quality necessarily, but in this case it makes me question Peter's contribution to that album overall.  I don't see how having synthesized sounds has anything to do with sparseness...I find them quite clean and clinical on ATS [=more sparse], and they are more layered and complex on Reveal and UP [=less sparse].

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

Well, it's kind of interesting how you focus all criticism on Peter's input... you are blatantly singling him out.

It's a thread about Peter Buck...geez, how stupid of me to single him out and focus my comments on him!

Let's see I also said I thought he was a good bloke, that in the past I have admired his work ethic and honesty, and that I had a fucking great time at the RHV3 show watching such accomplished musicians.....so, it's interesting how you've focussed on all the criticisms.

So, why is okay for you to rant on endlessly about one of Stipe's lyrics and tell us how lame he was for supposedly taking Bono's advice?  I mean, you've said those things over and over and over again - but it's wrong to offer some criticism of Peter's input?

rosie said:

but then, my fave album was made during what was probably the most difficult time of their career (Up), so we could be in for a treat.

sue

That's pretty much how I feel too.  I don't think good or interesting art comes out of contentment.

Magnetic North said:

I think its important to note that peter has a tendency to exaggerate in interviews. A lot. Part of his dislike for the process, i would guess. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Ha!  You're so much better at getting to the point than me!  That's sort of what I was trying to say initially..well in my very first paragraph anyway, I should probably have left it at that..but the temptation to stir up some discussion got too much!


BTW...I'm also reminded of that infamous 'shoot the president' interview he did where he had just got a plane from touring with RH [remember this is close to 20 years ago] and he says "I'm  semi-official, semi-permanent, unpaid rhythm guitar player".  

Nothing has really changed that much, other than REMs lack of success and the year off has meant that a whole bunch of us got to see Peter playing live with RH....and some fans are unhappy with the year off? and agree with Peter that they should have gone into the studio quickly after the ATS tour?......go figure.

[Crystal Eagle]

I've not got round to seeing the RH doc yet, but I think'll I'll try to see it over the weekend. It sounds like there were some interesting, and thought provoking, comments made in it.

[welliwonder]

I was very surprised to see Peter being quite so publicly disparaging about the way R.E.M records its stuff, but I guess all he was saying really is that mike and michael like to work in an entirely different manner to him, he likes to do stuff quick and they are perfectionists, focussing on every little detail.

That means he takes no time at all to do his bits and then they take it and spend a couple of years perfecting it.This leaves him with nothing to do for long periods of time, and as a creative musician he needs to be writing and playing , and so Venus 3 is perfect for him to keep busy and on the road.

Having said that he never looks a bundle of joy when playing, whether with REM (see the recent amp chucking moment at the rock and roll hall of fame) or even with Robyn, he's not exactly throwing his head back and laughing his way through the set.He rarely even laughs at Robyns hilarious between songs banter( though I suppose he may have heard it all many times).

My immediate thought when he said he doesnt want to 'spend 4 hours shaking hands with people he doesnt know' was that surely the $50 million helps ?, but then I know it doesnt work like that.Having seen some of the corporate wank that goes on, it couldnt be further removed from the reason Peter started playing music and the money has nothing to do with that.Dont forget even making a video is a painful experience for Peter!


What with Mike playing golf in his time off and Michael with endless other non musical side projects I'm quite glad Peter is so passionate about his music,and I'm hopeful that, like with Up, REMs last truly great record in my opinion, a little creative tension may yield some exciting results on REM's next work.

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

wagtail said:

Etty, I find it hard to respond to your posts because you seem to read things in my post that I don't actually write.

This is getting ridiculous. My sentiments exactly. Excuse me if I condense some of your points and address where you seem to be misunderstanding me, and attributing sentiments to things I never said.

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I really only remember that part so well, because it was pre-Reveal and he said something like...'I like to think we'll record the album, tour...probably go to asia, australia, nz..because we haven't been there for a long time..etc etc etc'.  I remember thinking...Well that never happened!

So what? He's not the only person in the band. Maybe he went off touring with other bands because the REM guys didn't fall in with Peter's ideas. Who knows?

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We're kinda back at square one with this.....in your previous post you said its not in REM interests for Peter to be an arsehole to bigwigs. If that's the case it's also not in REMs interest to publically whinge about having to do it.

It's not in the band's interests to be uncivil to these people when faced with them at some function or industry meeting. He can say what he likes outside of that. I very much doubt the executives watched the doc or would give a shit if they did. Seriously.

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You translate awkward as arrogant?  Clearly we have very different sensibilities...I never said he was arrrogant, and I think awkward is a polar opposite to arrogance.

You got that backwards, somehow. I'm sorry, but the tone of what you said implied that Peter would have preferred not to mingle with the fans. I absolutely don't equate awkward with arrogance, but then I wasn't the one complaining about Peter's awkardness.

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I do like ATS... but I've also said, on many occasions, that musically it lacks impetus and drive, I've said that I thought the production was too clean. I don't think liking an album neccessarily excludes you from offering criticisms of it....my world isn't that black and white, thankfully.

Bully for you. Of course liking an album doesn't pre-empt criticism of it. Who said it did? You're coming down quite hard on one member of the group. It's glaringly obvious and I'm wondering why. Saying this a thread about Peter Buck so let's put everything you don't like about REM's recent input down to him is baised. It's a thread about Peter so let's rag on him, basically.

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By sparse I mean it's not particularly layered, and nor very guitar-driven.  I don't think sparseness is a bad quality necessarily, but in this case it makes me question Peter's contribution to that album overall.  I don't see how having synthesized sounds has anything to do with sparseness...I find them quite clean and clinical on ATS [=more sparse], and they are more layered and complex on Reveal and UP [=less sparse].

It's an REM album. Not a Peter Buck solo project. I personally don't think it's fair to single out one member for an album not being what you wanted it to be. Blame the band, blame the producer even, but to lay it all on  Peter is unfair, IMO.

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It's a thread about Peter Buck...geez, how stupid of me to single him out and focus my comments on him!

That is just spurious. They are mainly negative comments, that's my point, and the majority of them don't even have anything to do with music but with presumed "being an arsehole" and getting all bent out of shape on behalf of music industry execs.

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Let's see I also said I thought he was a good bloke, that in the past I have admired his work ethic and honesty, and that I had a fucking great time at the RHV3 show watching such accomplished musicians.....so, it's interesting how you've focussed on all the criticisms.

So, why is okay for you to rant on endlessly about one of Stipe's lyrics and tell us how lame he was for supposedly taking Bono's advice?  I mean, you've said those things over and over and over again - but it's wrong to offer some criticism of Peter's input?

It's not "wrong". (funny word for a shades of grey person to use, but still).  I just don't agree with you.  As it applies here; Michael Stipe writes the lyrics. In my opinion the lyrics on ATS are dire. Nobody else in the group wrote lyrics for ATS, that was Michael with alleged "advice" from Bono. I think they're terrible. If  *you* think Peter's guitar playing is terrible come out and say so instead of blithering on about how he should be nice to the corporate people or else he's an arsehole, and he's awkward at after show things and all the other stuff which is really not to do with the music at all
Peter and all  the guys have done interviews when they were drunk or mindfucking with reporters. I love those interviews but I don't take them as gospel. I'll say it again, I hope the next REM album will be fantastic, and they go on as a band, recording and doing live stuff.

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Nothing has really changed that much, other than REMs lack of success and the year off has meant that a whole bunch of us got to see Peter playing live with RH....and some fans are unhappy with the year off? and agree with Peter that they should have gone into the studio quickly after the ATS tour?......go figure.

Who said that they're unhappy with the year off? Peter didn't want to twiddle his thumbs so he went on tour with the V3.  End of.

[stipeeyes]

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That means he takes no time at all to do his bits and then they take it and spend a couple of years perfecting it.This leaves him with nothing to do for long periods of time, and as a creative musician he needs to be writing and playing , and so Venus 3 is perfect for him to keep busy and on the road.

I wouldn't say a couple years but at least 8 months is around how long it's taken for the last few albums. Going by updates with the fanclub,etc.   I think it took the longest with Up which was close to a year and of course because of Bill leaving they basically had to start over and Michael having writers block.   Around the Sun seemed to take a long time but they did do the two songs for the Best of and the short tour for that.
So sometimes as a fan waiting it does feel like ages between albums.:D   But I'm satisfied as they have been quite active since 03. I was very surprised when they did the best of tour and than another longer tour for ATS.  Since they really did not do many tours since Green.

[wagtail]

Sweet Fanny Addams said:

This is getting ridiculous. My sentiments exactly. Excuse me if I condense some of your points and address where you seem to be misunderstanding me, and attributing sentiments to things I never said.

So what? He's not the only person in the band. Maybe he went off touring with other bands because the REM guys didn't fall in with Peter's ideas. Who knows?

It's not in the band's interests to be uncivil to these people when faced with them at some function or industry meeting. He can say what he likes outside of that. I very much doubt the executives watched the doc or would give a shit if they did. Seriously.

You got that backwards, somehow. I'm sorry, but the tone of what you said implied that Peter would have preferred not to mingle with the fans. I absolutely don't equate awkward with arrogance, but then I wasn't the one complaining about Peter's awkardness.

Bully for you. Of course liking an album doesn't pre-empt criticism of it. Who said it did? You're coming down quite hard on one member of the group. It's glaringly obvious and I'm wondering why. Saying this a thread about Peter Buck so let's put everything you don't like about REM's recent input down to him is baised. It's a thread about Peter so let's rag on him, basically.

It's an REM album. Not a Peter Buck solo project. I personally don't think it's fair to single out one member for an album not being what you wanted it to be. Blame the band, blame the producer even, but to lay it all on  Peter is unfair, IMO.

That is just spurious. They are mainly negative comments, that's my point, and the majority of them don't even have anything to do with music but with presumed "being an arsehole" and getting all bent out of shape on behalf of music industry execs.

It's not "wrong". (funny word for a shades of grey person to use, but still).  I just don't agree with you.  As it applies here; Michael Stipe writes the lyrics. In my opinion the lyrics on ATS are dire. Nobody else in the group wrote lyrics for ATS, that was Michael with alleged "advice" from Bono. I think they're terrible. If  *you* think Peter's guitar playing is terrible come out and say so instead of blithering on about how he should be nice to the corporate people or else he's an arsehole, and he's awkward at after show things and all the other stuff which is really not to do with the music at all
Peter and all  the guys have done interviews when they were drunk or mindfucking with reporters. I love those interviews but I don't take them as gospel. I'll say it again, I hope the next REM album will be fantastic, and they go on as a band, recording and doing live stuff.


Who said that they're unhappy with the year off? Peter didn't want to twiddle his thumbs so he went on tour with the V3.  End of.

You really seem to care a lot about this stuff.  Watch out someone might accuse you of being a sycophant.


So, if I relate what was said in an interview, you read it is as a complaint?  Every single thought I express, you interpret as being negative and adversarial, or so it seems.

If I make an observation about someone seeming awkward, where the comment was based more on empathy than anything else, you'll also read that as complaining.

If I reiterate your point that it's not in REM's best interests to be an arsehole to industry bigwigs...I'm the one getting bent out of shape on behalf of the music industry, and calling Peter an arsehole.

On the one hand I'm singling Peter out for criticism, and on the other hand I'm not criticising him enough.  


My mistake.  I'll try to be less rational in future.

[MeanCat]

wagtail said:

You really seem to care a lot about this stuff.  Watch out someone might accuse you of being a sycophant.

Etty a sycophant? That's beyond ludicrous.

[welliwonder]

stipeeyes said:

I wouldn't say a couple years but at least 8 months is around how long it's taken for the last few albums. Going by updates with the fanclub,etc.   I think it took the longest with Up which was close to a year and of course because of Bill leaving they basically had to start over and Michael having writers block.   Around the Sun seemed to take a long time but they did do the two songs for the Best of and the short tour for that.
So sometimes as a fan waiting it does feel like ages between albums.:D   But I'm satisfied as they have been quite active since 03. I was very surprised when they did the best of tour and than another longer tour for ATS.  Since they really did not do many tours since Green.

I know, I was exaggerating, but the point being that Peter likes to work very quickly and the others do work quite slowly by comparison, which gives him plenty of spare time and he would rather go out and play than sit round by the pool I guess.

Lets see how long the new one takes, I've a feeling it'll all be a lot quicker than ATS !:)

[Sweet Fanny Addams]

wagtail said:

You really seem to care a lot about this stuff.  Watch out someone might accuse you of being a sycophant.

My mistake.  I'll try to be less rational in future.

I'm about as sycophantic as you are rational.You've got a good line in pretzel logic. Oh, and I'm sure the suits will be thrilled to know they have your support against "arsehole" rockstars.

[Lois]

Peter Buck will never call it a day with R.E.M. because it's his 'cash-cow' that allows him to wander the globe enjoying himself.  R.E.M. is akin to 'his parents' house, they piss you off some of the time, they cramp your style some of the time, but they are always there to go back to if you need it.

Peter Buck's heart isn't really anywhere but with himself, pleasing himself, all of the time and having a winge and a tantrum when he has to toe the line once in a while.

[rosie]

Lois said:

Peter Buck will never call it a day with R.E.M. because it's his 'cash-cow' that allows him to wander the globe enjoying himself.  R.E.M. is akin to 'his parents' house, they piss you off some of the time, they cramp your style some of the time, but they are always there to go back to if you need it.

Peter Buck's heart isn't really anywhere but with himself, pleasing himself, all of the time and having a winge and a tantrum when he has to toe the line once in a while.

i think this is a bit harsh.  surely, after 27 years, R.E.M. means more to Peter than a 'cash cow'.  and he must have enough money in the bank to ensure that he need never pick up a guitar again, be it with R.E.M. or anyone else.  but the fact that he chooses to do so, time after time, to me at least proves that he lives for music.  he's said that he has no other interests...it's what he does.

for all we know, Mike and Michael could be begging Peter not to break up the band.

sue

[stipeeyes]

rosie said:

i think this is a bit harsh.  surely, after 27 years, R.E.M. means more to Peter than a 'cash cow'.  and he must have enough money in the bank to ensure that he need never pick up a guitar again, be it with R.E.M. or anyone else.  but the fact that he chooses to do so, time after time, to me at least proves that he lives for music.  he's said that he has no other interests...it's what he does.

for all we know, Mike and Michael could be begging Peter not to break up the band.

sue

I think Lois may have just been joking to lighten things up.  :)

When I met Peter in March, he sounded positive when talking to fans and he seemed like he was looking forward to making the next R.E.M. record. I heard him say I hope we start it real soon.  So I think some fans are reading into this documentary a bit too much.  I know in the past Peter used to say some lies in interviews just because it would be printed or recorded.  Like in one in the the old days he said his father had died when in fact he was still alive and fine. I'm not calling him a liar about this, but just saying he's been known to tell some white lies just to mess with the interviewer.  Michael has done that same thing as well.  
And since the band's second albums some music critics, etc. were always hoping that R.E.M. would break up for some reason.  And that's why Bill once said, "We'll break up and play our last show on New Year's Eve in 1999 and of course people took him seriously".  And well he was just joking.

[NicoleDec17too]

To me, in the Hitchcock documentary, Peter seemed a bit irked at Mike and Michael and their commitment to R.E.M  by the comments he made.  I saw it when it first came out and I thought he sounded like he had a problem with them and that his heart was definitely with the minus 5 or venus 3 or Robyn or???? and not Mike and Michael.  :(

[tick-tock]

Peter says not playing music is like a death to him, like not breathing.  REM took a year, no well over a year, off - what's the guy supposed to do? Sit at home twiddling his thumbs?  No, he went elsewhere to make his music and that's fair do's in my book.

[Rimshot]

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Peter says not playing music is like a death to him, like not breathing. REM took a year, no well over a year, off - what's the guy supposed to do? Sit at home twiddling his thumbs? No, he went elsewhere to make his music and that's fair do's in my book.

And thank goodness he worked on these side-projects. The Minus 5 and Robyn Hitchcock albums are some of the best LPs to come out last year (and have been great shows). And honestly: I listen to them a helluva lot more than "Reveal" and "Around The Sun."

[merchgrrl]

Rimshot said:

And thank goodness he worked on these side-projects. The Minus 5 and Robyn Hitchcock albums are some of the best LPs to come out last year (and have been great shows). And honestly: I listen to them a helluva lot more than "Reveal" and "Around The Sun."

I agree wholeheartedly.
This "year off" has been the best year personally for me as an REM fan. Prior to the hiatus, I had seen Peter and Co. a total of 2 times (once with REM, and one Minus 5 show). Over the past year and a bit, I've seen the Minus 5 play four times, Robyn Hitchcock and The V3 twice, John Wesley Harding with Scott, Peter and Bill as his band once, plus one stellar night with the Young Fresh Fellows. (Peter wasn't playing mind you, but he was there drinking with us, all the same).
There was the Slowmusic tour which I missed, and a new Tuatara album is due in the next month.

There has been so much music put out in the past two years, it's difficult to keep it all straight (never mind the dozens of other new bands I've discovered in the process of attending these shows).

I'm not worried about where his heart lies- he's working on new REM material- so I'd call it a pretty solid bet that his heart's there right now. I'm just grateful for all the other music we were given during a period of what a lot of people were calling a "vacation".

[fanfan]

It was heartwrenching to watch Peter in this documentary, he seemed to be suffering. Him saying that he didn't like doing promotion for a new album (interviews etc) wasn't surprising to me. However, the recording time in studio seemed like a major conflict within the band. I hope the next sessions will be a bit shorter for him (and for a not overproduced album:)).

[tick-tock]

merchgrrl said:

I'm not worried about where his heart lies- he's working on new REM material- so I'd call it a pretty solid bet that his heart's there right now. I'm just grateful for all the other music we were given during a period of what a lot of people were calling a "vacation".

I totally agree with this and, yes, there has been some great music and gigs from Robyn/Venus 3 and Minus 5... we're off to see Robyn/Venus 3 at Wychwood tomorrow and we just can't wait. :)